 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Carrying Capacity 110 Utility 2.4 TDCi |
 
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| RogerG Member Since: 02 Sep 2014 Location: Exeter Posts: 24   
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Hi Folks I hope you can help with this query. I was going to buy a new 2.2TDCi 110 Utility but because the Carrying capacity is under 1000kg at 986kg it doesn't quality as a Commercial Vehicle for VAT purposes
 Things changed when the Defenders were reclassified in 2012 due to EU rules which was when the 2.2 was introduced. Does anyone know the carrying capacity of the 2.4 110 Utility as I think that this may have been over the magic tonne! Also was it classed as a Commercial vehicle for road tax like the 2.2 which implies that it is restricted to 50, 60 and 70 MPH rather than 60 and 70 for a non commercial?
Thanks Roger |
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2nd Sep 2014 6:13pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6294  
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I'm afraid I don't know the answer to your question other than to say I thought my 2011my was eligible for vat etc but I was told by someone more recently that's not the case. There is mention of this on the forum but if your search skills are like mine you probably won't find it (where's Mal).
Good luck. |
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2nd Sep 2014 6:40pm |
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| JJ Member Since: 18 May 2009 Location: Winchester Posts: 932 
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The 1k carrying capacity is only part of the story to be classed as a commercial after all a Fiesta van can't take a ton , the other part is if it is primarily commercial and not for passengers. ( hence Berlingo, Bipper etc. are classed as commercial ) . On this basis my understanding is the Utility is a commercial and you can claim back the vat if purchased for business and vat registered.
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2nd Sep 2014 6:43pm |
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| JJ Member Since: 18 May 2009 Location: Winchester Posts: 932
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Land Rover
Defender 110 LWB Diesel XS Utility Wagon TDCi [2.2] [2015] Current Payload 1009 |
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2nd Sep 2014 6:47pm |
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| Steve10 Member Since: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Llandeilo Posts: 8  
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I contact Land Rover recently about this issue and also the position regarding benefit in kind tax on the same vehicle (2.2 tdci Defender 110 Utility)
Here is their response: Further to our telephone conversation yesterday please find below the information you require. Context As part of the 11MY programme, all Defender derivatives were re-classified into the N1 Commercial Vehicle category in order to be type approved for sale under the new European Complete Whole Vehicle Type Approval (ECWVTA) legislation. Subsequently, at 12MY the new 2.2l PUMA engine was introduced to comply with the EU5 emissions legislation which came into force for N1 Commercial Vehicles on the 1 January 2012. Even though all Defenders are categorised at N1 Commercial Vehicles for ECWVTA purposes, they are not all treated in the same way for vehicle taxation purposes. The N1 classification also led to a change in the way the vehicle masses and dimensions are calculated which caused a reduction in Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) for some versions and the withdrawal of some of the Heavy Duty vehicles in the range. The purpose of this bulletin to provide clarification around some of the more frequently asked questions on this subject. Vehicle Taxation VED – The reclassification of all Defenders into the N1 Commercial Vehicle category means all derivatives are subject to the Commercial Vehicle VED rate, which is currently £215. Benefit in Kind (BIK) – The reclassification into the N1 category made no change to the way Defenders are treated for income tax purposes. A Commercial Vehicle is required to be of a construction primarily suited to the conveyance of goods. Consequently, 90 and 110 Station Wagons do not meet these requirements and are considered a Passenger Car for BIK purposes. However, 110 Utility Wagons, along with all other Defender derivatives do meet these requirements and are considered to be Commercial Vehicles for BIK purposes. VAT – in the same way as BIK, the reclassification into the N1 category made no change to the way Defenders are treated for VAT purposes. Defender 90 Station Wagons are treated as a Passenger Car, whilst 110 Station Wagons are normally treated as Commercial Vehicles because they have a payload which exceeds 1000kg. 110 Utility Wagons and all other derivatives are also considered to be Commercial Vehicles. Please note, vehicle taxation can be subject to local interpretation of HMRC guidelines so interested parties should be advised to seek clarification with the local tax office. Vehicle Weights The N1 Masses and Dimensions legislation requires that a vehicle load be placed centrally in the load space for the measurement of vehicle masses. Previously the load could be spread across the entire vehicle. As a consequence, a greater load is placed on the rear axle which necessitated a reduction in the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) for some versions to ensure the rear axle capability is not exceeded. You will shortly receive a customer satisfaction survey from Land Rover. Questions 1 to 10 relating specifically to me and your contact with the customer relationship centre. I hope you are assured of my best intention to assist with your concern and your feedback would be much appreciated. Kind Regards Sarah Mascia Land Rover Customer Service Executive Tel: 0044 1926 691606 Email: smascia@jaguarlandrover.com Jaguar Land Rover Limited Registered Office: Abbey Road, Whitley, Coventry, CV3 4LF Registered in England No: 1672070 If you do not receive a response within 2 working days, then please email LRCS3@jaguarlandrover.com or call the Customer Relationship Centre on 0870 5000 500 |
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2nd Sep 2014 7:13pm |
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| Steve10 Member Since: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Llandeilo Posts: 8
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Having posted my reply above I have thought of a couple of other things.
Whilst I am comfotable that you would be able to claim the VAT back on a 2.2 tdci 110 Utility (providing you are a VAT registered business) I would not personally be happy to rely on a forum for the advice. It is possible to contact HMRC to obtain an advance clearance as to whether you may claim the VAT back on a specific vehicle. My advice would be start off by calling the VAT helpline (0300 200 3700) and asking them for the correct address to write to. I would then write to HMRC to request confirmation in writing that you can legitimatley claim the VAT back on the Defender in question. You will then have their confirmation (or otherwise) in writing. Incidentally, just because HMRC may agree that the vehicle meets the criteria to be classified as a commercial vehcile for VAT purposes does not mean that they will agree it can be treated as a 'VAN' for benefit in kind purposes. Sounds strange but they are different departments within HMRC and they have different rules. You can also obtain a written confirmation from HMRC regarding the benefit in kind position. Hope this helps Steve |
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2nd Sep 2014 7:34pm |
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| RogerG Member Since: 02 Sep 2014 Location: Exeter Posts: 24
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Thanks for all the replies. I have contacted HMRC to ask them about this specific model but they just replied with general advice. My accountant looked at this and concluded that it isn't a commercial vehicle because it has windows behind the drivers seat and also that the payload is under the required 1000kg - by 14 kg! hence it doesn't meet the requirements.
The latest 2015 Brochure shown the payload as 986kg. So I was wondering if the pre 2012 reclassification models had a higher carrying capacity which would be over 1000kg and so would meet the requirements? I have also asked LR if it is possible to specify HD suspension to increase the payload and they have promised to look into this. Failing that it might be a double cab which has a payload of 1006kg but is not really what I need for my business. |
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2nd Sep 2014 8:46pm |
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| cozz Member Since: 15 May 2013 Location: nottingham Posts: 531 |
its a commercial vehicle
I bought one, claimed vat back through my business, same as any other van I buy and run |
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2nd Sep 2014 9:15pm |
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| JJ Member Since: 18 May 2009 Location: Winchester Posts: 932
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[ quote="RogerG"]
The latest 2015 Brochure shown the payload as 986kg. So I was wondering if the pre 2012 reclassification models had a higher carrying capacity which would be over 1000kg and so would meet the requirements? I have also asked LR if it is possible to specify HD suspension to increase the payload and they have promised to look into this. Failing that it might be a double cab which has a payload of 1006kg but is not really what I need for my business.[/quote] I don't understand where the 986kg comes from. The gross vehicle weight is 3050 and the kerb weight is 2041 which leaves the payload as 1009. That is for the utility. The payload for the double cab is 1040kg. Sound advice from Steve10 though , no substitute to written confirmation from HMRC. |
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2nd Sep 2014 9:38pm |
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| RogerG Member Since: 02 Sep 2014 Location: Exeter Posts: 24
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Kerb weight is now 2064
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2nd Sep 2014 9:51pm |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1579 
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The 110 utility does qualify for vat and is a commercial vehicle. It also has the same benefit in kind allowance as any other van.
I don't think the payload is the sole reason for a vehicle being a commercial. Check with your accountant. |
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2nd Sep 2014 10:15pm |
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| jimbob7 Member Since: 06 Jul 2013 Location: uk Posts: 2055 |
Nearly all the 110 utilities on eblag are + vat. Pov.spec,ftw. 2006, 110,TD5.
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2nd Sep 2014 11:41pm |
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| GEllis Member Since: 21 Nov 2013 Location: Cornwall Posts: 58 
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I'm running a 2.2USW and my company reclaims Vat against the vehicle. Your accountant is incorrect, it's definitely classed as a commercial vehicle.
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3rd Sep 2014 12:37am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17307 
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No. As discussed so many times on here (and elsewhere) tax class has nothing to do with speed limits. It's a Dual Purpose Vehicle as defined in the Construction and Use Regs and therefore car limits apply. It's all here is you use the search facility. Payload on my 2007 2.4 110DC is just over 1 tonne, by the way, and the 2007-era sales brochure describes the DC as having a 1 tonne payload. |
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3rd Sep 2014 7:29am |
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