 | Home > Wheels & Tyres > The age old question - AT or MT? |
 
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351  
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I have had all three, but the coopers were ST's. I found Cooper adequate, but for a new tyre they are noisy IMO. I also feel the marketing behind tyre life equals hard rubber which will only get harder as they age. This backs up some people experience with chipping. But this is also pressure based as well. You find 50% of people either like em or don't. I question that.
BFG AT. Will do all you ask except go to the dogs in any clay mud scenario. BFG mud. One very expansive tyre but I feel you get what you pay for. I have done several long trips on dirt and rocks at GVM running 22 and 26psi. Driven across the desert 3 times at 15 and 16 psi. Cut the rears up badly, so much so there are deep cuts in the floor of the tread, all from incorrect pressure on rock. Driven for 3 weeks again at 15psi on sand islands, soon going for their four trip. I use them in the city as my daily driver travelling 40 minutes across town carrying 500 to 1000kg because I'm a tradie. And have completed 75k km on them with another 20k of useful road life to go I feel. They have given me everything with the occasional emergency brake response . Don't aqua plain, and still grip on newly wet roads that have been dry for a while. I have not had one puncture or issue with these tyres. But I drive modestly, I certinally no racer, and I highly recommend there tyres. I use the 4psi rule with them, rotate them every 10k and have them re balanced. If there was one complaint, being MUDs they do get out of balance as they wear. Back to at BFG AT's. I believe they will do similar, but just aren't as strong, so maybe not. I expect a fair bit from my tyres so happy to take the hit on the mud price. Hope this helps My Defender and travels |
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6th Aug 2014 12:53am |
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| couplands Member Since: 31 Aug 2011 Location: Peak District & Cornwall Posts: 1826  
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What's the "4 psi rule"....?
Cheers Simon |
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6th Aug 2014 6:42am |
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| roel Member Since: 08 Aug 2009 Location: Lelystad Posts: 2039  
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I used BFG MT's under my Camel. But the older type. I don't have experience with the current type. I really loved that tyre Long life, goor road behavior. I regulary drove to Southern Germany and Austria for work. Also in the wet.
 Click image to enlarge I still have them as MOT tyres for my 90 and I used them if I are using my 90 for a longer road trip to save my Simexes. Roel 1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001) 1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009) 2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts. 2003 90 Td5 (2009-now) |
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6th Aug 2014 6:56am |
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351
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Its a theoretical equation based on weight, tyre pressure, and temperature.
[urlhttp://www.aawen4x4.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1:4psi-rule&catid=2:current&Itemid=7[/url] Actually guys I need to clarify few things, I run 6 wheels so perhaps if I ran a set of 4 or 5 then 80K Km maybe there life span. I'd also like to clarify when I say cuts, that's all they were. Lots of cuts in the logs and on the floor of the tyre, but no chunks or lugs of rubber breaking off. Actually first desert trip 8000km, I had the alloy tray clash with the wheels under full articulation. At least a dozen or more times the wheel would jamb in the alloy trays ribs as it bottomed out. This process would cause a tear at the bottom of the lug where it joins the floor of the tyre. I though for sure I'd have separation or loose a lug exposing the belts. Nope, no, not at all and that was 65K Km ago. Probably should have ditched them, but at $400 a tyre I though I'd run them to the end. Still waiting. My Defender and travels |
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6th Aug 2014 7:02am |
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| Pam W Member Since: 25 Oct 2011 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1169  
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The Cooper ST Maxx (not the STTs) are a very good 'middle ground' between an MT and an AT. They are classed as an AT, but the tread pattern is more biased to off-road than a normal AT.
I've just done 15K miles on a set on my Defender around Australia - mixed surfaces - and have been very pleased with them. Not noisy at all, handle really well on wet and dry bitumen, gravel, soft sand and light mud. Oh and no punctures !  Our blog - http://landytravels.com/
Yorkshire Off Road Club - http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net |
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6th Aug 2014 1:45pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17336 
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I run BFG muds and cannot think of any circumstance why I would ever consider changing to ATs. The muds have good road manners, are excellent off-road, and very, very long lived (I have never yet had less than 100,000 miles from a set, and I remove them when they still have a useful amount of tread left, normally not less than 6mm).
Despite the comment above, I cannot see how a BFG Mud T/A can be considered expensive! Typically £130 for a tyre, with a life of 100,000 miles, this is around 0.13 of a penny per mile (far cheaper than any other make I have tried in the past, and far cheaper than any car tyre I have had). SWMBO has BFG A/Ts on her Navara and whilst I have no complaints with them, they're no better on the road and not as good off as the muds. I have used both the original Muds and the KM2s and have to admit that i actually preferred the old style since they did seem to be slightly more puncture resistant. I have *never* had a puncture on the originals, but I have had 2 on the KM2s. It may be that the later tyres use a softer compound, or it may be pure chance and nothing to do with the tyre at all. |
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6th Aug 2014 2:17pm |
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| PCA42 Member Since: 15 Jun 2014 Location: Church Stretton Posts: 468 
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Another vote here for the ST Maxx. Great middle ground, and wear really well too. And strong. Running them at low pressures in the muddy stuff, they are pretty damn good at keeping up with the MT boys. If you're conscious of fuel economy, the more aggressive the tread pattern, the worse it will be due to greater rolling resistance. When I was running on BFG ATs (a good tyre), I had a set of aggressive mud tyres for 'playtime', and found I got a touch over 100 miles less to a tank when I left them on for a weeks commuting than I did running on the ATs!  Pete
2010 Discovery 4 GS TDV6 1972 Series III 88" 2.25P |
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6th Aug 2014 2:41pm |
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| david mitchell Member Since: 01 Jul 2012 Location: Meath Posts: 418  
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I use bfg a/t and find them excellent both on and off road. There great in the wet too.
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6th Aug 2014 3:17pm |
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| roel Member Since: 08 Aug 2009 Location: Lelystad Posts: 2039
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AT are not excellent in wet clay.
 Roel
1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001) 1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009) 2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts. 2003 90 Td5 (2009-now) |
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6th Aug 2014 4:11pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5804  
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Hello,
Have been reading today's posts and I have a follow on question. I am just about to buy a 2010 110 SW. I live and work in the French Alps, with 80% road use, but some light off road use on gravel tracks to properties (I'm an estate agent, boo hiss) or access for trail running, skiing etc. I will be upgrading to Silverline Blindo Alloys and they have recommended the Coopers, saying the BFGs are dated. In principal either work, but for me I have a rain (gallons of it in Nov) and snow (4mths, working between altitudes of 800m and 2000m) issue. It is in this regard that Silverline said the Coopers were better. Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks from a new member, first post. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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6th Aug 2014 4:43pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17336
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Bearing in mind the striking similarity between the Cooper STT and the much lamented original BFG Mud T/A it is an odd view that the KM2 (which superseded the original) is "dated" .
Makes me wonder if there is some kind of vested interest. |
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6th Aug 2014 5:18pm |
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| smb Member Since: 15 Jan 2013 Location: Cheshire Posts: 1232 
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There's probably a greater profit margin for them with the Coopers. Although, not quite the At-v-Mt answer, Bf's all the time for me. I have a set of Cooper STT's on the Disco and a set of BF MT KM2's on the Defender. On Grass when the Coopers have stopped the BF's will carry on further. Noise wise, BF's are a lot quieter, Stability wise, BF's again and in a different league altogether. Only done about 2000miles on the Coopers so can't tell you what the wear is like, but the BF's have done 58000 with still 9-10mm to go.
Have also tried swapping the tyres around so Coopers on Defender and BF's on Disco and fairly quickly swapped them back as The BF's were better on the Defender. Believe it or not, I really wanted the Coopers to come out on top because I think they look better, but just no comparison which was a little disappointing. Also, in the 58000miles on the BF's covering Motorways, green lanes, fields, rock forms I have not had one puncture. In the first 500miles of the Coopers One got a flat, but that could be just Sod's law! |
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6th Aug 2014 5:36pm |
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| Timo K Member Since: 23 Aug 2012 Location: Helsinki Posts: 171 
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^He said ST Maxx, not STT.
For mainly road use, especially in the wet, I'd definitely go for the ST Maxx over either the STT or BFG MT KM2. I traded my STT's for KM2's and was happy with the change, but I don't think the road grip is anything to write home about on the KM2's. Wet grip is definitely lacking IMO. ST Maxx is a more modern tyre better suited for changing conditions. KM2's aren't in my opinion all that great offroad either, but it's a good all-around tyre. |
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6th Aug 2014 5:39pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5804
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Interesting thoughts. As it happens the quote from Sliverline (who I am led to believe have the monopoly on Blindos) have quoted quite a bit less with the Coopers as opposed to the BFGs. So either there is a deal they have or else they do believe they're best. Why take a hit for £50, especially given I initially asked for the BFGshaving seen them everywhere and heard of their good repute. The problem is that whilst I have driven Landys for 30 years in various guises, this will be my first purchase and therefore responsibility for shoeing them is down to me. Given the expense and life expectancy, want to get it right. Having looked at this and other forums, seems to be a fair split, until you get to hardcore off-roaders....
Black wolf, good name, I guess this is your vehicle: Click image to enlarge Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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6th Aug 2014 6:20pm |
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