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| 67_6Cyl Member Since: 10 Feb 2010 Location: France Posts: 97  
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Hi all,
The vehicle: 2007 110SW TDCi Puma, 165k kms, mostly commuting, bit with heavy trailer work as well. The problem: major speed related vibration at >110 kph ~70 mph, felt through seat, feet, and to a much lesser extent the steering wheel. Recent work done: clutch change with g-box out 4k kms ago, and vibration has appeared since then. Ok, so my initial diagnosis was wheel balance and I got those done at the weekend. They were far out, but it didn't solve the majority of the vibration. Next thing I did was check the wheel bearings, and they appear to be ok. I also greased the prop shaft UJ's, and this removed the problem for 5 or 6 minutes, although they don't appear to be worn or damaged. So, what tests should I do? Blast along at 110kph with diff-lock engaged and one of the propshafts out to see if it really is that? Just change the  anyway?
Jon |
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22nd Jul 2014 5:59am |
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| Happyoldgit Member Since: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3471  
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You could try removing one prop at a time but while they are off do manually check the uj's for tight spots as they don't always show on the vehicle. Next thing I'd do is check all the suspension bushes for wear especially those either end of the panhard rod. Next would be the TRE's etc etc. Steve.
Owned numerous Land Rover vehicles of all shapes and sizes over the decades. Current Defender: A non tarts hand-bagged Puma 110 XS USW. [Insert something impressive here such as extensive list of previous Land Rovers or examples of your prestigeous and expensive items, trinkets, houses, bikes, vehicles etc] http://forums.lr4x4.com I used to be Miserable ...but now I'm ecstatic. |
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22nd Jul 2014 6:55am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5711 
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As above. Was the props put out of phase, when removed? Are they tight?
Andy |
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22nd Jul 2014 7:20am |
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| 67_6Cyl Member Since: 10 Feb 2010 Location: France Posts: 97
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TRE? tracking rod ends?
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22nd Jul 2014 8:44am |
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| 67_6Cyl Member Since: 10 Feb 2010 Location: France Posts: 97
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The two UJs on the rear prop-shaft are about 1h (30 degrees) out of phase! I don't have any tools at work, so when I get home I'll try and put it back in phase. I assume that once aligned the problem will be either resolved, or worse (180 degrees out). I've ordered the UJs so I'll change them when they arrive anyway. Jon |
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22nd Jul 2014 11:09am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8035  
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i dont believe they have any set way of being lined up, could be 90deg out to each other and then balanced. check by removing and driving in diff lock to see if its the prop first. Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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23rd Jul 2014 6:25am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8035
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** if you do the rear refit the nuts to hold the drum on! Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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23rd Jul 2014 6:25am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5711
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If you look carefully at the props there might be marks on the two sections indicating correct alignment.
Andy |
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23rd Jul 2014 7:15am |
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| 67_6Cyl Member Since: 10 Feb 2010 Location: France Posts: 97
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I didn't do anything to the propshaft last night, simply because the workshop manual that Daniel has made available for the 2.4 puma states that there is a particular phasing for the propshaft UJs (section 205-01), and I can't find any marks on the propshaft to tell if it has been reassembled correctly or not. Additionally, the workshop manual doesn't state what the phasing should be! aargh! Anybody know what it should be? Thanks Jon |
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23rd Jul 2014 7:40am |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3641 
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not sure about in this fitment but it is normal for prop shafts to be set with the UJs in line, if they are not aligned and they are operating through any angle then you get the output end effectively accelerating and decellerating a couple of times in every revolution, this is one of the reasons why CV (CONSTANT VELOCITY) joints are favored over UJs on high angle situations.
if your car was OK pre work and only vibrates since work then focus on checking what was disturbed during the work you can be 99% sure its related DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS, I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy Last edited by LR90XS2011 on 24th Jul 2014 5:15am. Edited 1 time in total |
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23rd Jul 2014 8:25pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17391 
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The Hooke joints in propshafts are normally aligned only if the flanges at opposite ends of the propshaft are co-planar. On the Puma they are not co-planar since the engine & gearbox are installed nose-up.
If the flanges are coplanar and the joints are aligned, then irrespective of the angle the propshaft makes with the flanges, although the shaft itself won't be running at a constant speed the two flanges will be. However if the flanges are not coplanar it is impossible for the driven flange to run at a constant angular velocity - like the shaft itself it will be accelerating and decelerating twice each per revolution and some measure of vibration is inevitable. The effect can be reduced by offsetting one uj from the other, as on the Puma. The problem is worse at the front and it is something of a mystery why LR didn't fit a propshaft with a constant velocity (the so called "double Cardan") joint as was used on the Td5 Disco (where the misalignment was significantly less than the Puma). There is some fairly complex maths in propshaft joint velocity calculations! |
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23rd Jul 2014 9:23pm |
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| 67_6Cyl Member Since: 10 Feb 2010 Location: France Posts: 97
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I changed the two UJs on the rear propshaft last night, and the vibration is much reduced.
Tonight? I'll change the front ones as well. Jon |
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24th Jul 2014 6:00am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17391
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Looks like they're about 70 degrees out of phase.
 Click image to enlarge Edit -posted in the wrong thread because I could find the right one! |
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23rd Jul 2015 6:24pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8035
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black wolf was this for me on the prop post question? Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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24th Jul 2015 2:16pm |
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