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| SiWhite Member Since: 19 Jan 2010 Location: North Hampshire Posts: 455   
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I've managed to secure access and firewood rights in a broadleaf wood owned by a neighbour of mine. There is enough wood in there to last me for many years - it hasn't been managed in a long time.
The snag is that the owner's insurance (she owns a large horse stud) insists that those on site require a certificate of competence for any 'exciting' equipment they are using. This means I need a chainsaw certificate of some sort. I've used a chainsaw for a number of years, and have the full compliment of PPE, but have never received any formal training. I've dropped a number of trees and cross-cut tons and tons of wood. What is the minimum level of chainsaw training I can get? Even the most basic looking course (maintanance and cross cutting) is a two day course costing a number of hundred pounds. I'm not sure I'd learn much from this course - I would look to do a felling course instead. I don't mind paying for the course - it would cost the same as a couple of loads of logs, and I'd hope to learn something. Any recommendations for an inexpensive course close to Hampshire / Berkshire / Wiltshire? My blog - www.anacreinhampshire.blogspot.co.uk 110 TD5 BuildHERE - sold! 110 Tdci Build HERE - sold! Passat Alltrack - 4x4, auto, 45mpg, gloriously comfortable - but not a Defender! |
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12th Jul 2014 5:36pm |
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| Myers Member Since: 07 Dec 2011 Location: Wiltshire / Sailisbury Plain Posts: 156 
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Simon
Courses appear to be the same price wherever you look, I've just had to do my maintenance and cross cuttiing as the MOD changed their rules. I did mine at Lackham, 2 days with a cost of £480. Same as you, I've been using chainsaws for may years, but went with an open mind, it wasnt a bad course. Myers - Somewhere on Salisbury Plain Puma 90 Hardtop (XS Spec) |
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12th Jul 2014 6:19pm |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1579 
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There are a few options
The best is an nptc which will cover you to fell trees upto 15 inch, maintain your saw and cross cut. A lot of the course is about correct maintenance. If you can sharpen your saw and adjust it correctly already I would go down the following routes. Contact an nptc trainer and see if he will do a condensed course for you. Or Contact local countryside skills college and see if they offer a basic course. Rodbaston college near me used to do a course aimed at farmers and land owners. The best license for using a chainsaw and felling trees is the nptc expect to pay around £700 for full course. This normally consists of 5 days training and 1 day test. I did manage to get one of my lads on two days training and 1 day test because he had been using chainsaws for years. |
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12th Jul 2014 6:29pm |
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| Spruce Pirate Member Since: 08 Feb 2013 Location: Stirlingshire Posts: 124  
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If you're confident that you know how to use a saw you can just book the NPTC assessment without the training.
Rightly or wrongly an NPTC certificate is what the forestry industry, HSE and insurers recognise as being competent in the use of the saw. Bear in mind that if you are only doing it for the insurance you will need to have the right tickets, only the basic CS30/31 (maintenance, cross-cutting, stacking and felling small trees up to 15" diameter at felling height) won't cover you for cutting trees over 15" or wind-blown trees of any diameter. NPTC is a progressive system, you start off doing the CS30/31, then progress to the 32 (large trees over 15" diameter) and from there to wind-blow. There are new numbers for the tickets now since NPTC have become more integrated with City and Guilds, but the old numbers are easiest for people like me (slightly simple sometimes  ) to use.
I'm too far away to suggest a trainer/assessor close to you, but a look on the NPTC website should provide you with training providers. If you are doing this you should also remember that if you want to satisfy an insurance company's requirements there is no way you should be operating a saw on your own. This should be an absolute no-no for chainsaw use. You'll also probably want to consider whether you're first aid training is adequate and up to date, how good your emergency planning is, how are you going to be extracting the wood - have you received the proper training and assessment in this? If you have to do the whole shebang with certs and plans for everything you'll probably find it's WAY too much hassle and not worth it for a bit of firewood for your own use. 
Sorry for the rant, but BS Health and Safety annoys me - what's the point in asking you to do a basic certificate when there are so many other certificates and such that you should be doing if this is really about making you healthy and safe? Does doing a certificate make you safer is a debate for a different place. 
If you really only need a certificate and you know what you're doing then I'd stick with my opening line and just do the assessment. Best of Luck.  Dirty Deeds - Done Dirt Cheap |
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12th Jul 2014 8:18pm |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1579
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In regards to first aid I really think everyone should do basic training. The first death of someone I knew in forestry had nothing to do with chainsaws. It was a falling branch in a woodland.
Trees and forestry are arguably one of the most dangerous industries in the world. Got back to the yard to find the landlord using a blunt chainsaw. Shorts on but it's alright he's been chain sawing for twenty years. Any training is better than none |
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12th Jul 2014 8:35pm |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2637
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Si,
As has been mentioned above forestry does not have a good record. A recent stat I was given on a course last week was >10 fatalities per 100,000 workers - three times that of construction by way of comparison. Food for thought! For your purposes I would suggest either the NPTC courses detailed above or the Lantra equivalents, your neighbours insurance may specify one over the other (most likely NPTC). As others have pointed out if you do the basic maintenance/cross-cut and the felling small trees then this will only allow you to fell small standing trees - nothing over the specified size and nothing windblown/uprooted. If you injured yourself or someone else felling a tree outwith your tickets then the insurance would be invalid. All very expensive I am afraid, as ever cutter working in the woods will tell you at the drop of a hat! First aid is a good point, certainly my requirements are that someone on site is EFAW+F trained (the +F is a forestry-specific add-on to the standard emergency first aid at work that deals with remote locations and the sort of injuries that are common - cuts/abrasions and crushes). I suspect you have fairly decent first aid training through your own work of course. The insurance might require the work be risk-assessed, again I am sure you are well versed with this. A big contributor to deaths in forestry is lone working, it is part of the nature of the industry - right now as I type there will be guys working in the forest on my sites on their own miles from civilisation or phone signal. Fair enough they're in machines but the principle is the same. Lone working with a chainsaw is a big no-no on FC ground, and should be elsewhere in my opinion too. I would say that if you were comfortable with your experience level and happy doing the felling/processing/extraction of the timber then don't worry about the official documentation and crack on - taking sensible precautions such as not lone working, maintaining the kit well, and wearing appropriate PPE. However it seems that your neighbours insurance will force your hand on this one. Health and safety in forestry is changing quite a bit, there will be more requirements in the future (much to the dismay of many!) but that is just the way it is going to be I am afraid. It's also worth bearing in mind what you are going to do with the woodland, i.e. which trees are you going to remove. Are you purely after firewood? Or do you want to try and work it to benefit the trees/wildlife/etc., does the owner have any aspirations for the woodland? |
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14th Jul 2014 7:33pm |
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| SiWhite Member Since: 19 Jan 2010 Location: North Hampshire Posts: 455
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Thanks for all the replies chaps - some great food for thought.
I'm not going to be felling anything - simply clearing fallen trees for firewood for our house and the odd neighbour. Good suggestions re. lone working - whenever I'll be there it'll either be with my neighbour or someone else. I've got a Combat Application Torniquet and an Israeli dressing in pouches on my chainsaw trousers - better safe than sorry. In regard to the training, I plan to contact a local provider and see if they can offer a tailored one day course - I've learned enough about saws not to require a maintenence course, and the landowner only requires a 'certificate' - nothing more specific. Hopefully this will mean I get something more from a course than a ticket! My blog - www.anacreinhampshire.blogspot.co.uk 110 TD5 BuildHERE - sold! 110 Tdci Build HERE - sold! Passat Alltrack - 4x4, auto, 45mpg, gloriously comfortable - but not a Defender! |
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14th Jul 2014 10:14pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8006 
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Likewise i have ffds in my chainsaw trs and on harness! Proper boots is something you will need for a course and i would suggest are worth buying. Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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15th Jul 2014 6:00am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17346 
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You may want to consider carrying haemostat as part of your immediate first aid kit, unless you have a nut allergy. In the event of a serious bleed it can be a lifesaver.
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15th Jul 2014 7:21am |
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