 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Lanky & clanky transmission, snatchy take up... |
 
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| cinstone Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Stourbridge Posts: 375   
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... of drive and pogoing at slow speed.
Here's a little story concerning my 2012 Defender 90 XS SW. Including the last service in September 2013 it's been back three times for several faults that haven't been repaired correctly, if at all, but the one that gets me the most is the slow speed driveability. In short it pogoes at slow speed, say in car parks or heavy traffic and is worst after changing gear from 1st into second, even though you may well be doing 10 mph in 2nd gear. It's even been known to pogo slightly in third at 22 mph, which is very odd when the vehicle will pull 3rd gear easily from 15 mph. The take up of drive is so snatchy, rather like driving an elastic band. It's fine if you have your foot down hard, keeping everything nice and taught, but stop or slow down then get going again it's awful, and something which my 2008 2.4 90 XS SW didn't do, or my 1964 IIa, a 2013 model from the dealers or a brand new 2014 90, also from the dealers. So, the last time it was at the dealer for 61 days. Yes, you read that correctly, 61 DAYS! A few weeks later it went back and this time test drives were taken in a 63 plate 90 XS SW alongside one the the technicial bods from the dealer, which was much better, and as a courtesy car I was given a brand new 90 XS SW with just 10 miles on the clock, and even when I try to make this one pogo by leaving it in too high a gear for the slow speed it's doing it doesn't pogo at all. During this visit which has seen me without my own 90 for another 9 days, and likely to be at least 12 in total at least, my 90 was inspected by a technical bod from Land Rover themselves. And the reply I got from the technical chap, via the dealer today was....... Wait for it..... It's satisfactory! So I drive a competitors vehicle that doesn't pogo, and I drive a 90 that does. Which one am I going to buy? I'd been advised by the dealer to contact Land Rover customer services, which I did and after a mild rant they said they'd have a word with the dealer. As yet I've heard no more on this from Land Rover, but will be picking mine up again this coming Wednesday to see what the state of it is after the dealer has done a "performance upgrade recall" and all the other faults, some of which have been created by the dealer. The clanky transmission noise seems to come from the front/left of the transmission tunnel and happens on every take up of drive, as indeed does the snatch at slow speeds, especially in traffic. Any ideas folks as the dealer hasn't a clue? Land Rover have been about as helpful as a chocolat teapot. On the plus side, it has meant that I've had the use of a brand new 90 XS SW for almost 1000 miles whilst mine has been in dock this time and the way the 90 XS SW is now I've bought my last Land Rover with my 2012 90 XS SW. Land Rover, you've lost £32+k from me! Cheers all, Chris. http://shropshirelandrovers.freeforums.org 2015 Defender 90 XS SW & Helen, 1964 IIa. Previously 2012 Defender 90 XS SW & 2008 90 XS SW. Previous LR's: Michael, my 2008 Defender 90 XS SW. Machinas oportet intrare non capsicum annuum faveo |
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2nd Jun 2014 7:03pm |
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| cinstone Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Stourbridge Posts: 375
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It's like at one point everything is all nice and taught and the next tit's all lanky. I dread to think what the drive shafts are going through.
Should have kept my 2008 2.4. Chris. http://shropshirelandrovers.freeforums.org 2015 Defender 90 XS SW & Helen, 1964 IIa. Previously 2012 Defender 90 XS SW & 2008 90 XS SW. Previous LR's: Michael, my 2008 Defender 90 XS SW. Machinas oportet intrare non capsicum annuum faveo |
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2nd Jun 2014 7:30pm |
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| pob1968 Member Since: 20 Apr 2014 Location: uk Posts: 239 |
What do you think is the cause? Do you have a hunch? 110 Hardtop
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2nd Jun 2014 7:35pm |
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351 
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yeh mate mine does a bit of that pogoing. Only turning off the mark at low speeds with light throttle on bitumen; like if you were turning around in a relatively empty car park using a constant throttle. It's seems the motor over responds to the accelerator position and leaps forward, then over compensates and slows which surges you forward but you haven moved your foot on the accelerator. It all gets uncomfortable with the drive line going CLunKA CLunKA CLunKA so eventually you get of the accelerator and idle. Idling and usual acceleration I have no problems.
Initially I though it was from drive line as mine was as loose as hooker and impossible to change gears with out a clank, thud, clank with every change. LR said it was normal, no surprises there. However I replaced the P38 with a Salisbury, and LR eventually did find a broken gear box mount, and now it's quiet as a mouse. To me its either a bit of good ol English LR arrogance that there is no problem, or some occasional random alignment issue of componentry with 2 diffs and a trans box, as it doesn't do it all the time. Perhaps it may have something to do with fly by wire, some sort of intermittent glitch but I'm only guessing. Mine also has a idling shudder, a intermitent vibration that runs through the car like a dog shaking itself. Starts at the front and goes to the back so it feels. Very minor, come and goes, just how it is really until it become bigger and traceable. I guess that is why many say Defender have personalities and one builds a close relationship with their truck. And I guess also it why Thiess Brother brought Toyota into Australia and left LR for dead in sales. Good luck with it. I have just learnt to idle out of the turn, however if yours is doing it in traffic maybe go the old safety approach. Seems to pull rank over everything these days. |
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2nd Jun 2014 8:21pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17363  
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Classic symptoms of a clutch driven plate in its death throws, probably combined with excessive backlash in the transmission.
If you switch off the engine with the gearbox in neutral and the clutch in (ie foot off pedal) do you get a rattle from the transmission area? Is the rattle absent if you do the same with the clutch out (pedal fully down)? If so get the clutch changed asap. Also check the driveline for excessive backlash, starting with the gearbox output adaptor shaft spline (transfer box out job sadly), the transfer box and centre diff, the propshafts, axle diffs, halfshafts, and drive flanges. Do not underestimate how awful the driving experience can become with a dying clutch and excessive transmission slop! |
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2nd Jun 2014 8:45pm |
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| cinstone Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Stourbridge Posts: 375
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Thanks all.
I've suggested the usual drive line components and engine and gearbox mountings to be checked. All I can say is that I assume they have been checked as no one at the dealer has told me what they've done. I mentioned the clutch way, way back, but they said that that is usually accompanied with a rattle. I haven't noticed any rattle myself, but will check on Wednesday. Whatever it is it ain't right. It's not a slight pogo effect, but quite pronounced. It rocks you forward and back in your seat. I'll point out the clutch possibility again on Wednesday, but I have mentioned the drive line adapter shaft after searching and browsing on here a while back. Cheers all, Chris. http://shropshirelandrovers.freeforums.org 2015 Defender 90 XS SW & Helen, 1964 IIa. Previously 2012 Defender 90 XS SW & 2008 90 XS SW. Previous LR's: Michael, my 2008 Defender 90 XS SW. Machinas oportet intrare non capsicum annuum faveo Last edited by cinstone on 2nd Jun 2014 9:17pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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2nd Jun 2014 9:08pm |
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| newhue Member Since: 28 Apr 2014 Location: Brisbane Posts: 351
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Holly smokes Blackwolf I hope you are wrong in my case.
This would mean 2 clutches, 1 transfer case already in 108K has come to nothing. All work done by LR except my diff swap which has been rebuilt along the way. Amazes me Uk technicians can't figure it out but someone on a forum has clue. Not putting you down mate, just the mind boggles. Might swing by the Toyota dealer and see what trade I get on one of those twin cab cruisers. No soul but no  either. |
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2nd Jun 2014 9:15pm |
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| cinstone Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Stourbridge Posts: 375
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Mines only done 18k miles and hasn't been greenlaning proper, or off road proper yet!
Chris. http://shropshirelandrovers.freeforums.org 2015 Defender 90 XS SW & Helen, 1964 IIa. Previously 2012 Defender 90 XS SW & 2008 90 XS SW. Previous LR's: Michael, my 2008 Defender 90 XS SW. Machinas oportet intrare non capsicum annuum faveo |
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2nd Jun 2014 9:18pm |
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| martinfiattech Member Since: 13 Nov 2013 Location: leicester Posts: 422
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Yep mine does the same, 2011, 90 with 24,000 miles on it brand new clutch and gearbox.
It did it before the work was done and is still the same, it usually does it on light throttle in second gear but not all the time. I wondered if it`s because the engine and gearbox were designed for the transit which has a duel mass flywheel, larger front torsional vibration damper (big rubber bush on the crank pulley) along with a different ecu program. Yes it`s still in being fixed now a running total of 9 weeks in the workshop since November  Excuse the spelling I`am better with spanners and wires. |
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2nd Jun 2014 9:40pm |
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| smb Member Since: 15 Jan 2013 Location: Cheshire Posts: 1232 
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I had the exact symptoms from about 30k. Then at about 55k the rattle started. At 75k Id had enough. Turned out clutch was at fault and excessive wear on rear drive flanges. All sorted after new clutch and flanges. The clutch plate had only about 50% wear, but all springs were completely shot at with three missing altogether.
Hope you manage to sort it out. I wouldn't rely on the dealer. Take it to a reputable indy as they will get to the bottom of it. Yes, it will cost you for sorting it, but you won't have all the back-and-to, stress and hassle with dealing with the dealer. |
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3rd Jun 2014 12:35am |
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| cinstone Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Stourbridge Posts: 375
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Thanks for all the info' folks.
SMB: thanks for that, but there's no way I'm forking out for that lot and a vehicle that's not 2 years old yet and still under warranty. However, all very useful information I can point at Land Rover. Cheers, Chris. http://shropshirelandrovers.freeforums.org 2015 Defender 90 XS SW & Helen, 1964 IIa. Previously 2012 Defender 90 XS SW & 2008 90 XS SW. Previous LR's: Michael, my 2008 Defender 90 XS SW. Machinas oportet intrare non capsicum annuum faveo |
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3rd Jun 2014 12:41am |
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| jomara Member Since: 26 Oct 2009 Location: Lanarkshire Posts: 1790 
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That's worrying my 62 plate with 5k started doing this a few weeks back!!! Hope you find a resolution Cinstone!! 2014 110 2.2TDCi XS Station wagon
1971 Bowler Tomcat 88 4.2 V8 Auto 2022 110 D250 XS Edition - Gone 2024 110 D250 X-Dynamic HSE |
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3rd Jun 2014 6:13am |
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| timbar Member Since: 30 Jul 2013 Location: Milton Keynes Posts: 245 
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I noticed a rattle from ours recently. Blackwolf, I put a recording of it here:
Is this the kind if thing people are hearing? This is in an 09MY 110 with 50k miles. I don't know whether it's had a new clutch already; service history is rather thin on details. A mate said it was probably transmission noise on such an agricultural vehicle -- I wondered whether perhaps it doesn't have its 2.2L of gearbox oil, if it wasn't the clutch. 2009 110 XS Station Wagon |
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3rd Jun 2014 11:16am |
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| Jim_Bean Member Since: 10 May 2011 Location: Staffordshire / Shropshire border Posts: 613
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Mine has done this from day 1. It seems to get stuck in a feedback loop and the only way to stop it is to press the clutch.
I've kind of gotten used to it now. I guess its just the way Pumas drive. Can be a bit embarrassing whilst stuck in traffic or slow moving traffic on the motorway and the 110 lurching all over the place. Its got 12,000 miles on the clock now and its as bad now as it was to start with. At least its not got any worse. My TD5 NEVER did this. On the plus side, at 60mph all the rattles, vibration seem to suddenly go away its a joy to drive. |
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3rd Jun 2014 12:30pm |
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