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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4661  
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Once again thanks for all of the positive info and posts.The engine must have some serious wear owing to the amount of oil it is using. The knocking noise is audible when driving at speed and it is constant. If I get no joy, the vehicle will not be drivable for much longer. Don't care what they put in it so long as they put something in. There was probably a proviso with this bulletin not to do anything unless a customer kicked up about it. I passed no remark in the beginning of the knocking as I presumed all diesels knocked a bit but when it got louder and could be heard above engine and road noise at 60mph I began to think all was not "well in the state of Denmark" (as Hamlet might say). When the oil topping up became a litre every couple of weeks Hamlet knew something was definately "rotten in the state of Denmark".
Serviced religiously and with oil to the correct specifications it made me wonder how problems could arise with the engine. Hopefully I'll get a good response from "the state of Solihull" as Hamlet probably would not say. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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11th Mar 2014 10:08pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17382  
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Landrover's policy with these TSBs has always struck me as rather harsh.
When I bought my (pre-owned) DC it was about 3 weeks out of warranty. It needed a new clutch, and it needed the engine sump replaced with the kind that doesn't get bashed by the propshaft, both of which were the subject of "if the customer complains ..." TSBs. Landrover refused to carry out either job at its own expense and I paid in full for both, because the warranty had expired. So if the vehicle is under warranty and if you don't complain, it isn't done, if it is out of warranty, it isn't done. I argued that as there was a known design problem with both components, a fact acknowledged by LR as evidenced by the existence of the TSB, they should pay (or at least contribute substantially to) the replacement costs. Their response was that as both components had lasted without problems (arguable in the case of the disintegrating clutch) for three years and 40k miles there wasn't anything wrong with them, and basically told me to bog off (rather more politely though). I would fully expect the same thing to happen in the case of the PCJ TSB if my engine is destroyed by this design defect. It has done over 130k miles and is 7 years old, so how can I possibly argue it is defective in design? Let us hope the situation never arises! Please keep us posted how you get on. |
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12th Mar 2014 9:32am |
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| Mongolia Member Since: 23 Jun 2013 Location: Toulouse Posts: 45 
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Now, you can find in UK some new genuine stripped engine for your Defender 2.4.
In ebay website, it's round 4000 GBP ( vat included) |
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12th Mar 2014 2:32pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4661
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Got a reply from Land Rover. The vehicle needs to be assessed by one of their dealers to be diagnosed which is fair enough so I'll make arrangements to get it down. Then the e-mail goes on to say that once they get the report from the dealer they " can look into the possibility of Land Rover assisting if applicable".
Also the bulletins are issued to dealerships to aid them in diagnosing problems. As they are not recalls I would not be notified about them or the problems they are concerned with. Will keep the updates coming. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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12th Mar 2014 6:08pm |
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| redhandluke Member Since: 02 Jun 2013 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 243 
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Good Luck Spudfan. I always get annoyed at situations like this, if the fault merited corrective action then it should be retrospective to any vehicle that has been affected IMO
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12th Mar 2014 6:28pm |
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| rossy Member Since: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Co. Roscommon Posts: 1296 
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I've been thinking about this one Spud and I really hope they don't try to wriggle out of it.
For a start you have ample proof that the vehicle has been well looked after and not abused. (don't forget there's a record of all your posts here which back up your maintenance paperwork.) Also if it was a lesser component there would have been a recall and replacement. For obvious economic reasons they opted not to replace every affected engine. This is understandable but it raises a few issues. For instance if the problem was known before you bought it did they advise the dealership to tell all customers that their engine may or may not go bang after a few years. Of course they didn't. Did they contact all affected owners to let them know. No. They did a risk assessment and went for the least costly (to them) course of action. Which doesn't help the poor guy who is faced with a massive bill caused by a known fault sometime down the line when the vehicle is comfortably out of warranty. Therefore I would be asking them how long should a well cared engine last for if it succumbs to a known engineering fault which was their responsibility. How long would 'the man on the Clapham omnibus' think would be fair for the fault to manifest itself without the manufacturer being liable ? Five, ten, fifteen years ? I don't know but I would be asking them. Perhaps Watchdog might be interested. You bought from a UK dealership so you might get in. Years ago I had a problem with Citroen UK in Slough. I contacted the local papers to let them know when I was going to parade my placard outside their premises and guess what - problem solved. I hope you get a satisfactory outcome even if you have to take a Ryanair from Knock to Birmingham - ten minute taxi ride to HQ and ask to see the top man. Good luck ! |
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12th Mar 2014 7:32pm |
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| CRJ Member Since: 12 Mar 2011 Location: Sealand - Denmark Posts: 253  
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Hi. Just a question regarding the TSB - if an engine is within the affected vin range it does not mean that the problem will ever occur? or what. I have just found a new engine for my defender - a 2008 with 69.000 km on the clock.
Regards CRJ 88 Ser. 3 1980 -sold Puma 130 - 08- sold 90 200tdi 1991 - sold 88 Ser. 3 1977 200 TDI 110 CC 2003 |
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13th Mar 2014 7:34pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17382
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As I understand this particular "feature" was present on all engines in that range and can happen at any time and any mileage. If an engine in the range has been reconditioned or fully rebuilt it should have the modified PCJs fitted, but there would be no external way to tell this.
I suppose that as an engine wears the chance of high oil pressure lessens so it might become less likely that the problem will occur, but it isn't exactly satisfactory |
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13th Mar 2014 8:06pm |
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2415  
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Would it be wise to change those jets on early engines anyway? Puma 110" SW
............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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13th Mar 2014 9:45pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4661
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Could someone tell me how the maindealer will test for this problem? Symptoms are
Knocking sound - very loud. Can be heard above road and engine noise at 60mph. High oil consumption. It went from the max mark on the dipstick to half way in 144 miles. Two years ago the smoke reading was .750/m one month AFTER a service by the maindealer. Lots of bluesmoke on taking off. The wife was talking to the maindealer today who were saying that it was six years old and out of warranty.I've no difficulty in paying for them to investigate the problem but going in with the out of warranty thing and I'll have to pay for a new engine if needed stance, which is the impression she got is not augering well. I hope to be able to get them on the phone myself. The e-mail from Land Rover said that Id need to have a maindealer check it out, which is fine and then they'll decide if they'll assist me or not. I've sent the service manager at the maindealer a copy of Land Rover's e-mail and I've also sent Land Rover a copy of the symptoms and smoke test so soon after a service and a copy of my queries to the service manager. I'm presuming that there are no fault codes for this otherwise it would have been detected at a service,so just how do they confirm whether this falls into the category of the fault in the service bulletin? 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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13th Mar 2014 10:17pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17382
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I am speculating, but (if I was investigating this I'd use) compression tests, oil pressure tests, borescope to look for cylinder wall damage, particulate analysis of the oil, and ultimately cylinder head removal and or bottom end strip down.
Last edited by blackwolf on 14th Mar 2014 9:29am. Edited 1 time in total |
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13th Mar 2014 11:11pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17382
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I think the problem is that this involves a major rebuild of the engine. I may be wrong but I think the PCJs are incorporated into the con rods or gudgeons, so it's a full strip and new pistons job to sort out - I think! Anyone know if trannies have this problem? Update - since writing the above I have done some further research. The PCJs appear to be attached to the block and squirt upwards into the piston skirt. It should be possible to replace them but may not be easy. I'll research more tomorrow. |
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13th Mar 2014 11:15pm |
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| CRJ Member Since: 12 Mar 2011 Location: Sealand - Denmark Posts: 253
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I know of a few trannies with cracked pistons and low mileage - the same as with my engine - but I suppose that isnīt connected to the PCJ or what?
Regards CRJ 88 Ser. 3 1980 -sold Puma 130 - 08- sold 90 200tdi 1991 - sold 88 Ser. 3 1977 200 TDI 110 CC 2003 |
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14th Mar 2014 4:56am |
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| Mongolia Member Since: 23 Jun 2013 Location: Toulouse Posts: 45
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[color=blue][i][quote="blackwolf"]I am speculating, but (if I wad investigating this I'd use) compression tests, oil pressure tests, borescope to look for cylinder wall damage, particulate analysis of the oil, and ultimately cylinder head removal and or bottom end strip down.[/quote][/i][/color]
This is a lot of work time as working on the cylinder head is not easy. In France, unmount and remount the cylinder head, without changing parts, can cost more than 1500 |
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14th Mar 2014 7:26am |
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