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Paulpen

Member Since: 01 Mar 2014
Location: Somerset
Posts: 20

Defender TD5 wont start

Hi guys - been out of a green oval for a year myself now but trying to help a friend with his

Its a W reg defender td5 that drove fine this morning but was then parked up for a few hours and now cranks but wont start.

The main symptoms I can confirm are the temperatue gauge reads 75% hot with the ignition on and the fuel pump cannot be hear priming at all.

Have checked all fuses (dash and under seat) and all seem ok although under seat are slightly coroded hower they are showing 12 on each side.

Yellow relay under the seat seems ok, black one had the large thick wire loose in the holder but a temporary bypass does not seem to affect anything.

Tried removing and refitting the engine bay inetria switch but no change there.

Cleaned the injector loom connector and the red ECU plug as best as I could with only paper towel. Also seperated the ECU and although no oil inside there is certainly signs of damp where the pervious owner has had it apart before and no resealed it (slight greening on some solder and the big nuts on what I assume are the two big capacitors have light rusting).

In my head im thinking either the ECU is not turning the fuel pump on or the fuel pump has given up - niething of which are easy to do im assuming ?

Does anyone have any ideas / info to help us out or does anyone local to Somerset fancy some beer tokens to have a look, lend a Nanocom or lend an ECU ?

1st Mar 2014 9:25pm

ozzy57

Member Since: 14 Feb 2014
Location: Farnborough
Posts: 221

Does the self prime process work on defenders the same as on discos? If so try that, I.e. Ignition on, pump the throttle peddle 5 or 6 times and the system goes into purge mode - pumps fuel about to get air out of the system - you should be able to hear the pump clearly during this. If you can't that's probably the problem. It wasn't me!

2nd Mar 2014 6:32am

Paulpen

Member Since: 01 Mar 2014
Location: Somerset
Posts: 20

Did give that a go and still no sound from the pump - wether thats because there is a pump issue or because thats not working on this one im not sure

2nd Mar 2014 10:57am

Paulpen

Member Since: 01 Mar 2014
Location: Somerset
Posts: 20

Power at the interia switch and bypassing the switch makes no difference.

Lift pump works with a direct earth and live.

Also kept tracing it all the way back to the plug by the expanson tank and can still run it from there.

The traced it to the green relay in the centre console and can run it from there. The relay also tests ok but its not getting triggered at all.

Traced from the green relay to the ECU and can manually run the pump with a 12v and earth from the ECU connector so either the ECU is not switching earths / lives correctly or it has none going into it to be able to switch.

It starts to try and run on easy start however even if I have the pump running and crank it over it dont even try so guess the ECU is not opening the injectors either ?

2nd Mar 2014 4:35pm

bob neville

Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Marbella
Posts: 3248

With your description of damp etc plus all the rain we have had I think I would start by checking the ECU's earth.

Maybe worth running a new one to a known good earth point.

Bob 2015 Jaguar XE240 R Sport - goes like ....... !!
2013 Defender 90 CSW - sold
2009 Defender 110 Double Cab - sold
2001 TD5 90 CSW - offroad project - sold to a forum member
2011 Porsche Boxster - for the sunny days !

2nd Mar 2014 5:12pm

Paulpen

Member Since: 01 Mar 2014
Location: Somerset
Posts: 20

Have tried reearthing the ECU case and the 10mm bolt to the connector near it under the drivers seat.

I have 5 earths at the ECU plug (Black plug). All 5 are black wires at one end of the plug...

2nd Mar 2014 5:17pm

bob neville

Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Marbella
Posts: 3248

OK.

I take it the battery is OK, TD5's are very touchy if the voltage is a bit low ?
Also take a look at the crank sensor, doubt that it is that if the pumps not running but has got to be worth checking.

Bob 2015 Jaguar XE240 R Sport - goes like ....... !!
2013 Defender 90 CSW - sold
2009 Defender 110 Double Cab - sold
2001 TD5 90 CSW - offroad project - sold to a forum member
2011 Porsche Boxster - for the sunny days !

2nd Mar 2014 5:26pm

Paulpen

Member Since: 01 Mar 2014
Location: Somerset
Posts: 20

12.4 - 12.6v showing between the terminals

What should I be looking for at the crank sensor and where is it ?

2nd Mar 2014 5:29pm

dorsetsmith

Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554

on top of the bellhousing at the 1 o clock position as seen from the rear of the vehicle. it is approx 50mm behind the cylinder head.
on the Defender it is easy to get to once you get that thick rubber pipe out of the way.

Its really a very simple job, 2nd time round took me 3 minutes.

Remove the pipe that connects the air intake to the air filter
Remove the crank position sensor (7mm 1/4" socket works best)
Disconnect the plug (I found its easier to remove the CPS first, then remove the connector.
Install reverse above.

2nd Mar 2014 5:38pm

Laurie

Member Since: 22 Feb 2008
Location: Sussex, England
Posts: 2897

2005 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Bonatti Grey

Mine did that a few years ago.
Left it in a carpark for about half an hour and it wouldn't start when we came back.
I couldn't sort it. An AA man couldn't sort it so we ordered a relay truck.
Two hours later I tried it and it started perfectly.
Never done it since.

Last edited by Laurie on 2nd Mar 2014 5:40pm. Edited 1 time in total

2nd Mar 2014 5:39pm

bob neville

Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Marbella
Posts: 3248

On top of the bellhousing at the 1 o clock position as seen from the rear of the vehicle.

Make sure the cable is OK and once removed that the end of the sensor has not been damaged. Mine had the small spacer shim missing and that gave running problems. If the sensor is shot the vehicle will not start.

Bob 2015 Jaguar XE240 R Sport - goes like ....... !!
2013 Defender 90 CSW - sold
2009 Defender 110 Double Cab - sold
2001 TD5 90 CSW - offroad project - sold to a forum member
2011 Porsche Boxster - for the sunny days !

2nd Mar 2014 5:39pm

Paulpen

Member Since: 01 Mar 2014
Location: Somerset
Posts: 20

Ill give that a shot tomorrow evening then - other than physical damage is there a voltage I should see at the plug and a resistance accross the sensor ?

2nd Mar 2014 5:47pm

ozzy57

Member Since: 14 Feb 2014
Location: Farnborough
Posts: 221

Good call on the crank sensor. Iirc it's one of the few things that stop the engine firing. I'd forgotten about it, but I always carry a spare. It's cheap enough, and an easy fix, and if it doesn't work you have a spare if/when it is needed. It wasn't me!

2nd Mar 2014 10:15pm

bga86

Member Since: 17 Jan 2014
Location: Here and there
Posts: 205

If the temp gauge is reading high and no fuel pump you have an earth issue, usually the connectors on the relay under the seat or ecu internal failure. However, I have seen one where the earth wire between the inertia switch and the main ecu relay under the seat was broken. Put in an overlay harness and it fired up straight away

4th Mar 2014 6:50pm

Paulpen

Member Since: 01 Mar 2014
Location: Somerset
Posts: 20

Dont suppose you know what wires of the under seat relays should have earths ?

There are only two relays under there (one yellow and one black).

Have tested both for operation off the car and both work.

Unsure what readings I sould get at the pins though.....

4th Mar 2014 7:09pm

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