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munch90

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

right some one has one fitted with no problems I take your defender is std drivetrain etc .. yes starter do fill with dust but only when clutch and flywheel is knackered and they drive it till it wont move anymore ... to be honest not sure if main of the dust is from clutch or flywheel .. clutch making dust all the time ,flywheel only makes dust when they knackered .. still comes down to repair when problem starts not when it wont drive anymore

Last edited by munch90 on 11th Nov 2013 5:45pm. Edited 1 time in total

11th Nov 2013 5:41pm

big steve

Member Since: 24 Dec 2009
Location: hertfordshire
Posts: 2456

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Montalcino Red

Yes as said I will be changing it to a solid as and when I have problems

My truck has only done 4k though but it is pulling 35s round 2015 2.2 tdci hardtop xs
3.2 conversion DONE 238bhp and 707nm torque and thats just the start ;-P
hybrid turbo in build -done ready to fit
ashcroft atb in transfer box
6 speed auto in build

11th Nov 2013 5:43pm

JoostKenya

Member Since: 31 Jan 2010
Location: Naivasha
Posts: 9

munch90 wrote:
The inertia of a Defender .. inertia the power used to change motion of given object .. engine power is used to change motion on drive train... the engine puts out same power what ever drive train its connected to (lighter drive train transit motion changed faster ,defender heavier slower still the same power ... meaning the load on over run ... then that's the same... as the flywheel is the last bit before engine .. does not take any more to turn defender engine than transit engine on overrun . if your talking power going through flywheel then don't they fit the 3.2 tdci with DMF

You are thinking "static" and not "dynamic"!

Please read something like this: http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/med...heel_1.pdf

What I tried to say: the Defender has different spring and mass (=inertia) properties in the drive train and therefore different natural frequencies. So most likely you are not going to bennefit anything from fitting a DMF of a Transit in a Defender because it is not optimised for this vehicle.

But it will work and maybe you are not going to feel any negative compared to a solid flywheel. Joost
Defender 110 Puma 2.4
Tornado TD5 Racer
Defender 110 V8
Defender 136'' 300Tdi Safaricar
SIIA V8 Hybrid

11th Nov 2013 7:05pm

LR90XS2011

Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 3653

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Galway Green

This is interesting, I wondered if a rubber coupling as per disco 1 in one of the drive shafts would smooth everything out a bit DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

11th Nov 2013 7:43pm

munch90

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

JoostKenya wrote:
munch90 wrote:
The inertia of a Defender .. inertia the power used to change motion of given object .. engine power is used to change motion on drive train... the engine puts out same power what ever drive train its connected to (lighter drive train transit motion changed faster ,defender heavier slower still the same power ... meaning the load on over run ... then that's the same... as the flywheel is the last bit before engine .. does not take any more to turn defender engine than transit engine on overrun . if your talking power going through flywheel then don't they fit the 3.2 tdci with DMF

You are thinking "static" and not "dynamic"!

Please read something like this: http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/med...heel_1.pdf

What I tried to say: the Defender has different spring and mass (=inertia) properties in the drive train and therefore different natural frequencies. So most likely you are not going to bennefit anything from fitting a DMF of a Transit in a Defender because it is not optimised for this vehicle.

But it will work and maybe you are not going to feel any negative compared to a solid flywheel.

So the DMF is optimised for transit engine ... They do 4x hp ratings .. Lots of load carrying rates about 100 different body's .. We get from the swb 90 hp van to ambulance weighting 4.3 ton all running the DMF

11th Nov 2013 8:08pm

munch90

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

I would be very tempted to fit DMF when it comes to fitting clutch as I can't see it doing any harm .. If there fitted to some vehicles to take engine vibrations out . May help with transmission rattle etc ... Only fitting one would tell?.
After 20 years of racing and few championships , winning hundreds of races , his own fan club under my late fathers belt .. Building our cars , building our own engines. Playing with ratios etc etc it's in my blood to try different things ..

11th Nov 2013 8:27pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17598

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Hmm, I wonder why LR went to the trouble and cost of developing a solid flywheel for the Puma when there was a DMF option available off the shelf.

11th Nov 2013 9:46pm

munch90

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

Maybe there was a solid flywheel already if it's the same as transit conversion .. But it's not much to make a flywheel if you know the weight and dimensions . And Worth doing if your going to use thousands of them . We used to make our own ..
I heard it was because of DMF problems in transits
Or was it cost .. Solid is a lot cheaper to make .. Solid= one piece . There must be 20 bits to DMF
Look at the cost cutting they have done bad chassis paint etc even the rear door lock support gone!
But I would like to know if loosing the DMF causes gearbox problems seems a lot of problems listed on this forum
Solid conversion for transit was supposed to by bad for the same transit box as the defender
All the testing by land rover (if any) between solid and DMF can not account for wear and tear of thousands of different drivers Doing thousands of miles some towing some off roading some driving like -----
Tdci puma gearbox £3000 I read on here somewhere .. DMF £300 . Ok they don't last for ever but say you get 40,000-50,000 out of DMF (but have seen careful drivers get 100,000 out of them )
150,000 miles = 3xDMF + maybe couple of starters =£1200 THAT'S ALOT LESS THAN A GEARBOX
WOULD FITTING DMF BE BETTER ? DON'T KNOW
But I would like to find out wouldn't you

11th Nov 2013 10:30pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20612

Would my 90 be a solid or DMF Flywheel?
What is the difference?

3rd Sep 2014 7:15pm

munch90

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

solid is one piece

dual mass has a built in damper , the bit the clutch grips on can move round a bit , really just cushions the drive

I was told the other day that the very first pumas had dmf then changed to solid

we were always told the solid conversion for the transits which is a lot cheaper then clutch kit + dmf was not so good for the gearbox as fitting a proper dmf set up

3rd Sep 2014 7:21pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17598

Steve, all Pumas have solid flywheels (and sprung driven plates).

3rd Sep 2014 7:37pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20612

Thanks Blackwolf, I'm assuming then some transits are DMF and not defenders.

3rd Sep 2014 7:56pm

LR90XS2011

Member Since: 05 Apr 2011
Location: bickenhill
Posts: 3653

Munch90 I'm with you on this, if there is one that fits straight in I think its worth a try just to smooth everything out a bit and get rid of the useless clutch plate DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,

I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy

3rd Sep 2014 8:05pm

munch90

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

i was told the first ones had dmf by a big well known indepentant land rover garage whos knowledge I have often tested ringing up about problems with many customers cars and found them very knowledgeable , also there was one listed on ebay with a lr part number that was dual mass

but was told also now the part number goes over to solid flywheel as lr no longer supply a dual mass

3rd Sep 2014 8:07pm

munch90

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: guildford
Posts: 3558

LR90XS2011 wrote:
Munch90 I'm with you on this, if there is one that fits straight in I think its worth a try just to smooth everything out a bit and get rid of the useless clutch plate

if mine ever comes up to needing a clutch , I would like to go the root of luk dmf and luk clutch as I would not want to fit a ap clutch anyway

we never seem to get a problem with luk stuff and have fitted hundreds of them to all makes and models

and please don't tell me just because ap is oe fitted its better

3rd Sep 2014 8:16pm

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