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Jimb1978



Member Since: 05 Sep 2012
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 808

England 2002 Defender 110 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Swivel pins
I have had my local indie put together a kit like the britpart one but with genuine/OEM parts for the swivel pins and bearings to try to cure some death wobble problems...at a cost of....a lot!

However, the kits sold by the likes of britpart don't include the bottom pin and bearing. I have heard that the bottom ones don't normally wear but common sense tells me they should wear at the same rate as the tops. I am a little concerned that after I have done all this work(plus wheel bearings and discs and pads) and put it all back together that Sod's law says that the problem will persist and lie with the bottom pins.

Should I replace the bottom pins and bearings/leave them/just replace the bearings? Any advice on this would be much appreciated.


James
Post #276447 24th Oct 2013 7:45pm
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey
I'd say replace them while it's apart because if you have to strip it to put them in later your just paying twice for the same job.
Post #276483 24th Oct 2013 9:45pm
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landy andy



Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5641

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver
Agree with above, change all whilst you are in there.

Andy
Post #276501 25th Oct 2013 4:30am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17307

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Historically the bottom pins used deep groove ball bearings and the top pins used a patent friction-lined plain bearing (the Railko bush), as a result of which the top pin needed renewing more often than the bottom, despite the lower pin carrying the weight of the vehicle (the bottom pin carries vertical and lateral loads, the top only lateral, hence the different bearing types).

I haven't needed to look inside the front swivels of my Puma yet, but from the parts catalogue it looks as though the top bearing is now a taper roller, in which case it should wear far slower than the old Railko bush arrangement, and probably at a similar rate to the bottom.

However if there is excess slop in the top bearing I imaging that it will cause greatly accelerated wear on the lower bearing due to misalignment.

I would definitley replace top and bottom at the same time and feel that it would be a false economy not to. At least that way you will know there are no problems lurking at the bottom.
Post #276535 25th Oct 2013 8:08am
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Diablo



Member Since: 26 Oct 2011
Location: Basingstoke
Posts: 335

1984 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Keswick Green
My bottom ones are 28 years old and still in perfect order.
Post #276561 25th Oct 2013 10:33am
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yaho



Member Since: 26 Nov 2008
Location: Bialystok
Posts: 200

Poland 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Keswick Green
Few times down and up Africa and here it goes:

 Janusz
www.yahodeville.com
Post #276564 25th Oct 2013 11:18am
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Jimb1978



Member Since: 05 Sep 2012
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 808

England 2002 Defender 110 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Sorry for confusion. I plan on changing the bottom bearing but was concerned about wear on the pin itself. Price of a new pin britpart £4, genuine £68, allmakes £12 for 'as good as oem'. Guess I should wait and see because I see little point replacing a good genuine pin for something so cheap, unless it shows signs of wear.
Post #276670 25th Oct 2013 5:25pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17307

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Unless the bearing's seized there shouldn't be any wear at all on the pin itself. I thought you meant the bearing.

Change the bearing, keep the pin unless obviously defective.
Post #276783 25th Oct 2013 10:28pm
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Jimb1978



Member Since: 05 Sep 2012
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 808

England 2002 Defender 110 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Sorry blackwolf, and thanks for your input. There is only a small amount of wobble and skipping over bumps but enough to be unnerving at times. I just want to sort it out sooner rather than later as it is not as much fun to drive as it should be. I will inspect the pin but it doesn't feel like there will be any seized or badly worn bearings.


Certainly not like the picture above!
Post #276816 26th Oct 2013 7:44am
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Retroanaconda



Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2634

Scotland 
blackwolf wrote:
I haven't needed to look inside the front swivels of my Puma yet, but from the parts catalogue it looks as though the top bearing is now a taper roller, in which case it should wear far slower than the old Railko bush arrangement, and probably at a similar rate to the bottom.


They've had taper-roller bearings top and bottom since around the time the 300Tdi came out, 1993/4 or so! Same time they changed from oil to one-shot grease in the swivels, and from wide to thin hubs, drums to discs on the back and a few other changes etc. etc.

I would only change the parts if they're worn. The bottom pins/bearings tend to fair better because they get better lubrication just as a result of gravity.
Post #276944 26th Oct 2013 3:38pm
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Jimb1978



Member Since: 05 Sep 2012
Location: Huddersfield
Posts: 808

England 2002 Defender 110 Td5 Black LE Java Black
Well the expense mounts. I have stripped one side today and found badly pitted swivels. I had only ever looked at them with the wheels straight ahead. They are terribly pitted and rusted where the seal sits for most of its life. The bottom pin looks good, with only the tiniest wear lip which is just detectable with your finger nail so they will go back in.

Looks like rimmer bros do an OEM chrome swivel one for £85 +vat.

There are also some roller bearings which sit in the stub axle which I am going to replace, along with the seal behind it.
Post #278081 30th Oct 2013 6:30pm
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mk1collector



Member Since: 17 Sep 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 6769

England 2004 Defender 110 Td5 CSW Bonatti Grey
Had the full lot and new callipers, discs and pads done on mine a couple of months back. The cost certainly does mount up but it's best to do everything while it's apart. Big Cry
Post #278083 30th Oct 2013 6:34pm
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