 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > 07 Defenders, was there a transmission issue? |
 
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| CapeLandy Member Since: 21 Jul 2008 Location: Cape Town Posts: 558  
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Malc
It does take some getting used to before you can get the gearchange right. I find this each time I drive mine it takes at least a day to get used to as my wife is the daily driver. I find that you need to give it a second with clutch in before engaging the next gear (especially when cold) and let the clutch out fairly quick with no throttle. The clutch hydraulics has a flow control in the release direction so even if you let go quickly it is controlled. The throttle response is delayed I think to protect the clutch so it feels unresponsive at first. Remember it's not as nippy as a TD5. Give it a month or so and you'll get the hang of it. Cheers James |
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11th Mar 2010 7:18pm |
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| alantd Member Since: 14 Dec 2008 Location: Northamptonshire Posts: 1513  
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Hey there and welcome.
I'm just round the corner from you (well, nearly) so if you want to pop by you can try mine and visa versa. We'll quickly work out if yours is faulty. I have a bit more transmission slack in mine than I had in my Td5 but overall, the gearchange is much improved. One that started out as a 2.4 TDCi 110 XS + New Defender 110 First Edition |
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11th Mar 2010 9:21pm |
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| holmessato Member Since: 11 Mar 2010 Location: Milton Keynes Posts: 27 
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Thanks guys,
Alan, may well drop you a line soon. I am at The LR Experience center this weekend in Newton Longville, so will see how their 110 compares, but its good to know there is an enthusiastic owner in the area I can spend some time comparing notes with. If the LR Experience 110 is any better then I think I have a good case to get the car back to the dealer for some attention (Glad I have a years guarantee left!) I work in car design and just cant believe LR judged this as acceptable from a customer perspective, or maybe I am just getting soft as I get older! Thanks Malc |
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11th Mar 2010 10:18pm |
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| 110SEB Member Since: 29 Jan 2009 Location: Essex, England Posts: 1444 
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Be careful what conclusions you draw after the LRE. Our 110 has a gear change that requires the technique. Just as everyone seems to.
Went to Eastnor and found theirs to be smoother and much softer in every respect. It was pointed out to me that all 40,000 miles on the clock had been done in heavy terrain, mostly in low range under strain and all day everyday. Also, they are thoroughly serviced almost everyday. They do not make a fair comparison, but an interesting one. IMHO the gear change in the puma benefits from being as slow and exaggerated as possible with slow clutch release - then it's smooth as butter. I only change up when i've hit ~2,300 revs which gives me enough power and momentum to carry through to the next gear with my slow gear change. In all a perfect gear change takes roughly 3 seconds, instead of the 1/2 second in the Ford Ka i drive to work every day!  |
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11th Mar 2010 10:25pm |
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| eutek Member Since: 03 Mar 2009 Location: High Wycombe Posts: 586
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I agree 100%. Initially I was certain that the gearbox or some other drivetrain component was faulty, however I drove a VW van (fwd, I know), and it had a similar slap-back/clunking issue. The driver, infinitely more experienced than I in driving such vehicles, pointed out that I need to change gears using a different technique - exactly what I was doing in the Defender. If I slow down and change the gears at that pace, there is no more clunkinging. The downside is that it requires much more concentration and take-offs are much slower. |
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12th Mar 2010 8:35am |
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| 110SEB Member Since: 29 Jan 2009 Location: Essex, England Posts: 1444
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Yes. I'm sorry to say it but I expect 95% of RRS drivers expect simply to adopt the point and shoot driving style. More of a Merc auto attitude. the car drives them.
Conversely, Defenders need to be actively driven with concentration. Almost like driving a lorry, I imagine: needing to plan speed for junctions, ideal gears etc in order not to get caught out doing 15mph in 5th. That's why I love them. Happy drivIng everyone. |
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12th Mar 2010 9:12am |
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| David128 Member Since: 31 Jan 2010 Location: Melbourne Posts: 30  
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I have to switch techniques between a 300tdi and the puma. 300tdi is fairly standard, but with puma I take advantage of the anti-stall and lift up the clutch with foot still on footbrake until the vehicle is wanting to pull through the brake and move from footbrake to accelerator whilst still lifting the clutch smoothly. It does not matter how steep the slope is. I do this in high range to, then it is second nature when off road and all the control is required.
I used the same approach with the Td5 but the antistall is better on the puma and makes it easier. |
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12th Mar 2010 10:08am |
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| David128 Member Since: 31 Jan 2010 Location: Melbourne Posts: 30
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I have to switch techniques between a 300tdi and the puma. 300tdi is fairly standard, but with puma I take advantage of the anti-stall and lift up the clutch with foot still on footbrake until the vehicle is wanting to pull through the brake and move from footbrake to accelerator whilst still lifting the clutch smoothly. It does not matter how steep the slope is. I do this in high range to, then it is second nature when off road and all the control is required.
I used the same approach with the Td5 but the antistall is better on the puma and makes it easier. |
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12th Mar 2010 10:09am |
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| 110SEB Member Since: 29 Jan 2009 Location: Essex, England Posts: 1444
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This was shown to be particularly useful when I went to Eastnor. It's the safest hill start there is. It also means there's no slip backwards (and possible loss of traction) whch can happen if you jump frm brake to throttle with no handbrake on.
All this makes me want to go out driving the 110! |
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12th Mar 2010 10:43am |
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| holmessato Member Since: 11 Mar 2010 Location: Milton Keynes Posts: 27
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Thanks for the advice, I will continue to practice, though I am taking the changes very slow and clutch release very slowly already to minimise the occurrence of the clunk. I just cant imagine being able to manage such delicate gear changes while on rough tracks and off road.
So, it seems all TdCi's do it, but given the Td5, 300Tdi and all the other Defenders I have had (all 110's!) have been better I wonder why LR decided a backwards step was acceptable? I know the engine has more torque than it predecessors, and as such a more aggressive clutch can be expected to some degree, but ..... Anyway, how about clutch biting point, mine seems very close to the top of travel. How are yours? No hint of slip at all, so I dont think the clutch is worn (its only done 19K miles!). Also, the clutch itself rattles some times at idle and you can here it clunk if you lift off quickly while in neutral. I read some where there was a slightly different clutch fitted from some point last year I think. Anyone know why this was? Dont get me wrong, I love this truck. I learnt to drive in an SIII and have had a Defender or Series LR as a daily drive almost with out a break for the last 20 years. Every time I have bought a newer one, they have been better. This one is great and so much better in almost every respect...other than one |
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12th Mar 2010 4:28pm |
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| MuddyMarky Member Since: 01 Feb 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 548 
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Have a search around on here.....I'm sure I've read somewhere that there have been cases of early Puma's suffering from clutches going with low mileages.....I'm certain L/R have uprated it since the '07, and now fit the re-design (or whatever) as part of the repair/warranty thing. Might be a completely different thing I'm thinking of, I guess.... 
 Mark
2011 110 XS DC Stornoway Grey |
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12th Mar 2010 4:39pm |
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| 110SEB Member Since: 29 Jan 2009 Location: Essex, England Posts: 1444
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Agreed, get it in under warranty for a new clutch. There is a driving style required but it's not impossible. It's certainly fine at low speeds in low box too.
My biting point is not too high and is slipable if I want to. |
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12th Mar 2010 5:21pm |
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| munsterlandy Member Since: 17 Dec 2009 Location: munster Posts: 52  
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hello holmessato and welcome.
my 08 130 (07 manufactured) had 76000km when purchased. like you have driven LR products for quite a while and was away from them for a while. i initially found the shift terrible though with rather a lot of concentration a smooth(ish) shift was possible. she too rattled on idle in neutral. my old classic TD rangie did similar so changed clutch, PP, release bearing and fork. Clutch disc springs had become loose upon inspection. (i should say that i pull up to 3 tonnes 3/4 days a week then and now.) Suggested same to dealer when i dropped it in. response was "sure its a tractor and meant to be noisy"! anyway convinced them otherwise so got the new (i hope) clutch plate. now a different vehicle in relation to shifts. pedal a bit lighter too and bite comes in quite low. happy enough so far though do feel that she's a little underpowered on hills compared to what others seem to achieve here. had recent ecu upgrade map though will be fitting BAS remap soon. (hi Pete) hope this helps. |
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12th Mar 2010 7:17pm |
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| holmessato Member Since: 11 Mar 2010 Location: Milton Keynes Posts: 27
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Very helpful guys, thanks. It sounds like it would be worth pushing to get the new clutch fitted under warantee. Sounds like it could be worth paying for (at an independant) even if LR wont entertain a warantee claim!
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12th Mar 2010 8:24pm |
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