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RichieRich



Member Since: 07 Jul 2013
Location: Cape Verde
Posts: 36

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
No electrical charge to injectors
Hello everyone hope someone can help me? Just registered on this forum after reading through pages of previous topics but can't find anything similar to what I'm experiencing on my 2007 Defender 110. To cut a long story short I live in Boa Vista, Cape Verde and finding half decent mechanics over here is practically impossible! Fortunately there is a German holiday maker who is a mechanic willing to give his time tomorrow to try and fix my non-starting Defender.

To give you a bit of background on the story so far, temp gauge went to the red when driving, limp mode kicked in eventually got car home to discover gloopy oil mixed in the water reservoir tank. Replaced cylinder head gasket so original problem fixed. The new problem however is now the car won't start. Cranks over but won't kick in! German mechanic has done a few tests and managed to get the car started by pouring a tiny amount of fuel into the air feeder pipe, engine sounded like a rusty bag of nails and cut out after a few seconds. Error code P121C recorded so we've been focusing on the fuel injectors. Fuel is getting up to the rail so pump appears to be working ok. Took readings at the electrical connectors to the injectors and all four injectors are recording 0 volts so I'd imagine that is what is causing the non-start problem?

Unfortunately I'm not very mechanical when it comes to anything serious so I'm being led by relatively inexperienced mechanics (other than the German guy but when he goes home back to taking advice from Cape Verdean mechanics!). They are convinced three injectors need replaced but with no electrical charge getting to the injectors I'm a bit worried forking out for new injectors isn't going to solve the problem. One test the German guy did was take out the injectors connect them up again but out of the engine and crank the engine to see if any fuel came out of the injectors! Nothing! So it looks like the injectors aren't getting any fuel (due to no electrical charge getting to them?).

Has anyone else experienced something similar and if so where should we be focussing our attention to resolve the injectors not getting any charge? Hopefully I've given enough info but one of the problems is the Cape Verdean mechanics haven't really told me what other tests they have done so not sure if they've done anything else other than focus on the error code P121C hence the advice buy four new injectors!!

Thanks for taking the time to read my problem and with any luck someone can give me some pointers what I need to do.

Cheers

Richard
Post #249908 8th Jul 2013 8:51am
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rich



Member Since: 08 Dec 2012
Location: automotive trim tech trim shop
Posts: 264

England 2004 Defender 90 2.5 TD HT Barolo Black
I'm no expert but it sounds some what like its pulling in air from somewhere
Post #249919 8th Jul 2013 9:46am
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Porny
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Member Since: 31 Aug 2009
Location: Sutton Coldfield - West Midlands
Posts: 809

 
I would start by bleeding the fuel system - as per you should when changing the fuel filter.

Puma's can be a bit of a pain to start as will not self bleed.


When cranking, does the rev counter move?

Scarily, I hope you stood out of the way when testing injectors outside of the engine? We are talking an opening pressure of anything up to 1800bar - enough to cut through human flesh!!

When the cylinder head was removed, were the injectors put back in exactly the same locations? - as this is critical. If they were not, the injectors will need reprogramming into the ECU.

Really you need to bleed the fuel system, check injector coding, do a pump learn and then do a pilot correction learn.


If you did need new injectors, which is unlikely - these would also need to be programmed into the ECU! Not just a case of putting them in and away you go.


Cape Verde - could visit for a weekend Wink


Also - as a side note - Are you sure it was head gasket failure? And not oil cooler failure?


Ian IRB
The home of the first modified Keswick Green 90 - and the first 2.4 Puma through both the 200bhp and 550Nm barriers.

www.IRBdevelopments.com

www.facebook.com/irbdevelopments

www.integrated316.com

www.facebook.com/integrated316
Post #249955 8th Jul 2013 12:31pm
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sense of adventure



Member Since: 11 Nov 2011
Location: warwickshire
Posts: 147

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Galway Green
Also - as a side note - Are you sure it was head gasket failure? And not oil cooler failure?


Ian[/quote]


Do you mean egr cooler Ian?
Post #250113 8th Jul 2013 10:11pm
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Porny
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Member Since: 31 Aug 2009
Location: Sutton Coldfield - West Midlands
Posts: 809

 
sense of adventure wrote:

Do you mean egr cooler Ian?


Nope... I mean oil cooler. The EGR cooler would lead to a pressurised coolant circuit, but would not explain the oil mixed in the header tank.

Is quite a common failure on Ford Transits.


Bit more info:

[URL=]
Click image to enlarge
[/URL]

Quote:
The engine is lubricated by a forced feed oil circulation system with a oil filter and oil cooler assembly.

The oil filter and oil cooler assembly is attached to the LH side of the ladder frame and consists a full-flow, disposable canister-type filter, oil cooler and oil pressure switch. The mounting plate aligns with the oil gallery in the ladder frame and is sealed by an 'O' ring.

The engine cooling system cools the oil in the oil cooler and is regulated by means of a separate thermostat, which prevents the flow of coolant through the oil cooler when the engine is cold, ensuring the engine oil warms up quickly. The thermostat opens at 75±2°C (167±35°F).

Oil is delivered to and from the oil cooler through galleries in the cylinder block. Hoses from the engine cooling system are connected to 2 pipes on the oil cooler for the supply and return of coolant.

Lubrication System Operation

Oil is drawn, via a strainer and pick-up pipe in the sump into oil pump, which has an integral pressure relief valve. The strainer in the pick-up pipe prevents any ingress of foreign particles from passing through to the inlet side of the oil pump and damaging the oil pump and restricting oil drillings. The oil pressure relief valve in the oil pump opens if the oil pressure becomes excessive and diverts oil back around the pump.

The lubrication system is designed so that a higher proportion of oil flow is directed to the cylinder block main oil gallery while a lower proportion of oil flow, (controlled by a restrictor in the oil filter housing), is directed to the engine oil cooler. The remainder of the oil flow from the outlet side of the oil filter is combined with the return flow from the oil cooler before being passed into the cylinder block main oil gallery.

The main oil gallery has drillings that direct the oil to the cylinder head and the main bearings. Cross drillings in the crankshaft main bearings carry the oil to the connecting rod big-end bearings. Oil galleries in the cylinder head carry the oil to the camshafts and the hydraulic lash adjusters.

The oil pressure switch is located in the oil filter and oil cooler mounting plate to sense the oil pressure level before the oil flow enters the main gallery in the cylinder block. A warning lamp in the instrument cluster is illuminated if low oil pressure is detected.

Oil at reduced pressure is directed towards the cylinder head via a restrictor in the cylinder block/cylinder head locating dowel. Oil then passes through a drilling in the cylinder head to the camshaft carrier, where it is directed via separate galleries to the camshaft bearings and hydraulic tappet housings. Return oil from the cylinder head drains into the sump via the cylinder head bolt passages.



Ian

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated Mr. Green  IRB
The home of the first modified Keswick Green 90 - and the first 2.4 Puma through both the 200bhp and 550Nm barriers.

www.IRBdevelopments.com

www.facebook.com/irbdevelopments

www.integrated316.com

www.facebook.com/integrated316
Post #250135 9th Jul 2013 6:39am
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RichieRich



Member Since: 07 Jul 2013
Location: Cape Verde
Posts: 36

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
Thanks Ian for very informative reply! The mechanic had us stand well back when testing the injectors out of the engine!! Interesting that you mentioned the oil cooler, discovered that issue when researching online but one of the problems over here is lack of experience with the mechanics. Temp gauge to the red, limp mode, oil in water tank they automatically presume the head gasket! So that has now been replaced but must check to see if the oil cooler is faulty!

I don't think the mechanics over here have the tools to reprogramme anything on a Land Rover so that's going to be a massive issue!!

Not sure how serious you are about a weekend in Cape Verde (might need to be a week though due to flights) but we've had enough of Cape Verde mechanics and don't trust they won't actually do more harm than good when working on the car so we are seriously thinking about flying over an expert from the UK!! If this is something you would be interested in I can email you more info!?

Wish we'd bought a Hilux now!!!!

Cheers

Richard
Post #250324 9th Jul 2013 8:24pm
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Porny
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Member Since: 31 Aug 2009
Location: Sutton Coldfield - West Midlands
Posts: 809

 
RichieRich wrote:
Thanks Ian for very informative reply! The mechanic had us stand well back when testing the injectors out of the engine!! Interesting that you mentioned the oil cooler, discovered that issue when researching online but one of the problems over here is lack of experience with the mechanics. Temp gauge to the red, limp mode, oil in water tank they automatically presume the head gasket! So that has now been replaced but must check to see if the oil cooler is faulty!

I don't think the mechanics over here have the tools to reprogramme anything on a Land Rover so that's going to be a massive issue!!

Not sure how serious you are about a weekend in Cape Verde (might need to be a week though due to flights) but we've had enough of Cape Verde mechanics and don't trust they won't actually do more harm than good when working on the car so we are seriously thinking about flying over an expert from the UK!! If this is something you would be interested in I can email you more info!?

Wish we'd bought a Hilux now!!!!

Cheers

Richard


Richard drop me an email to ian@irbdevelopments.com

Yes, wouldn't be a problem to fly over - used to do this quite often for a customer in Athens.


Ian IRB
The home of the first modified Keswick Green 90 - and the first 2.4 Puma through both the 200bhp and 550Nm barriers.

www.IRBdevelopments.com

www.facebook.com/irbdevelopments

www.integrated316.com

www.facebook.com/integrated316
Post #250406 10th Jul 2013 7:35am
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SiWhite



Member Since: 19 Jan 2010
Location: North Hampshire
Posts: 455

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
My knowlege of the Tdci is merely a fraction of Ian's - but here goes.

I would try a full fuel system bleed, and after that I would advise checking the fuses in the vehicle. I have spent a number of days trying to diagnose a sensor issue on my Tdci (including replacing said sensor!) only to discover I had a blown 5a fuse.

A quick 5 minute check - but it might save you some dramas.

On an aside - I highly recommend Ian as a tech... My blog - www.anacreinhampshire.blogspot.co.uk

110 TD5 BuildHERE - sold!
110 Tdci Build HERE - sold!
Passat Alltrack - 4x4, auto, 45mpg, gloriously comfortable - but not a Defender!
Post #250415 10th Jul 2013 8:14am
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RichieRich



Member Since: 07 Jul 2013
Location: Cape Verde
Posts: 36

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
Hello Simon, thanks for your reply, mechanic checked all fuses as far as I know and all good. Ian, going to email you with more info this morning. Thanks to all for your feedback really appreciate it. Cheers, Richard
Post #250417 10th Jul 2013 8:23am
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miket



Member Since: 05 Oct 2012
Location: Peak District
Posts: 143

It's a long shot but my tdci wouldn't start a few weeks ago. It would turn over fine, fuses were good, didn't have any faults recorded but had low pressure on the fuel rail. It turned out to be a dirty crank sensor.

Good luck

Mike
Post #250575 10th Jul 2013 8:03pm
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RichieRich



Member Since: 07 Jul 2013
Location: Cape Verde
Posts: 36

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
Hello Ian, just wondering if you received my email I sent a couple of days ago? Thanks, Richard
Post #250866 12th Jul 2013 8:16am
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6092

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
I had the oil cooler fail in my 90 (Td5 though) , gave similar results. and wouldn't show its messy and ugly head until the engine got "hot" and the cooler thermostat opened.
Post #250895 12th Jul 2013 12:24pm
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Kevlar



Member Since: 28 Oct 2020
Location: Prague
Posts: 78

Czech Republic 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Santorini Black
I know this is an old thread but was the issue resolved ?
I'm currently facing exactly the same scenario.

Checked everything, bled the fuel multiple times and engine refuses to fire up

Thanks

Kev
Post #871246 4th Dec 2020 7:49am
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Barrytilt



Member Since: 27 Oct 2021
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 1

South Africa 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Keswick Green
Hi did you manage to fix have the same issue, even put a known good ecu,immobiliser,injectors new cam and crank sensor checked all the fuses still no diesel from injectors.
Any ideas
Post #927373 27th Oct 2021 4:54pm
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Kevlar



Member Since: 28 Oct 2020
Location: Prague
Posts: 78

Czech Republic 2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Santorini Black
In my case it was a faulty crank sensor ( even though it was new) I put the old one back in and it fired up nicely.
Post #927405 27th Oct 2021 7:22pm
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