 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > remaps are rubbish...... |
 
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324  
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I think they way to think about it with modern remaps (as opposed to the old tuning boxes) is that the same fuel may be used more efficiently. Therefore, the same fuel may mean more power and less fuel may mean the same power as the original set-up. That's all very generalised though, and both driving style and usage will still have a significant effect on the final outcome. Darren 110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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27th Jun 2013 7:40am |
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| Rakthi Member Since: 30 Nov 2012 Location: Where the cats are Posts: 200 
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What bm52 says ... ever since I have the remap I catch myself trying to put the car in 7th gear ...
Just back from the filling the tank and my average per 100 Km is down (from 10.25 l/100km to 9.95 l/100km *) although my driving style over the last 600 Km has been "a bit  " more aggressive.
Also, lower consumption with more power ... instead of doing 90 km/hr in 5th, I now do that in 6th, so at lower rpm, hence less consumption. All those little bits add up. * keep in mind I live on an Island with the longest uninterrupted bit of 4 lane road a bare 8 kms ... so never really get the truck over 120 KM/hr for long. |
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27th Jun 2013 8:16am |
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| Porny Site Sponsor Member Since: 31 Aug 2009 Location: Sutton Coldfield - West Midlands Posts: 809 
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Don't think it as more more = more fuel. A remap, well changes done to the engine ECU calibration (done properly) is more than just using adding fuel. Diesel technology has advanced with leaps and bounds over the last 10 years, gone are days when all you do is increase the fuel (pulse width). Modern diesel calibrations are based on torque strategies where the ECU determines how much fuel to inject (and when) based on throttle demand, air temp, load, air density, boost pressure etc etc. It does not just run off a basic map that says 'x' amount of fuel for 'y' amount of throttle pedal demand. Modifying a Defender calibration all about changes to the torque and power curves - i.e. making much better use of the torque capability of the engine. And making sure certain things are optimised. By giving the vehicle a much more usable torque band, you will not need to drive the vehicle has hard and you will be able to use higher gears etc etc... basically you end up with a much more relaxed drive. By doing this, you will increase efficiency. Any diesel tuning should always look to increase torque - focusing on the area where you will be driving the vehicle the most - and by doing this bhp will change (in terms of max and delivery). See graph below [URL=]  Click image to enlarge[/URL] X-isle has touched an interesting point that is also often overlooked... Proper servicing and more so making sure that everything is working correctly first is so important. In the past I have corrected faults on vehicles that have completely transformed them - yet I haven't touched the calibration. Faults like MAF sensor failure, blocked EGR's, leaking intercoolers etc all have a massive effect on the way a vehicle performs. On one than more occasion, fixing faults has made such a difference that customers didn't want a remap - and where instead happy with just having the vehicle working properly. Ian Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  IRB
The home of the first modified Keswick Green 90 - and the first 2.4 Puma through both the 200bhp and 550Nm barriers. www.IRBdevelopments.com www.facebook.com/irbdevelopments www.integrated316.com www.facebook.com/integrated316 |
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27th Jun 2013 8:20am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17451 
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The latest map on my 2.4 Puma has reduced my fuel consumption by around 10%. Yes, that really is ten percent!
At first I wondered if it was because with more power you generally don't have to work the engine so hard, but the first remap didn't achieve this (marginally less power than the second map I think, and absolutely no change to fuel consumption from standard). So my conclusion is that by no means now does more power = more fuel, and both greater power AND greater economy cna be achieved simultaneously with a good remap. |
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27th Jun 2013 10:11am |
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| tookaphotoof Member Since: 18 Mar 2013 Location: dordrecht Posts: 1279  
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Had remaps on my track cars. Never been dissapointed. However, I'd only go for a remap on a rolling road where everything will be optimized for my personal needs. Imho it's the only way it should be done.
Would love to have the Defender optimized, but as it's still under warranty, this has to wait. |
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27th Jun 2013 11:24am |
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| Porny Site Sponsor Member Since: 31 Aug 2009 Location: Sutton Coldfield - West Midlands Posts: 809
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I agree and disagree.... A rolling road is a very useful tuning aid and a very important part of development and testing - but you still need to make sure the vehicle drives correctly under real life conditions, not just in the artificial environment of a rolling road. Ian IRB The home of the first modified Keswick Green 90 - and the first 2.4 Puma through both the 200bhp and 550Nm barriers. www.IRBdevelopments.com www.facebook.com/irbdevelopments www.integrated316.com www.facebook.com/integrated316 |
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27th Jun 2013 6:00pm |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3785  
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G'day from Aus, Porny.
I've followed what you have said. If the car is re-mapped for more power & torque, the engine has to work harder to make those figures....more pressure/load/work etc etc etc for pistons/rods/crank/headgaskets etc.....so, what are the risks here.....do these increased loads cause any premature wear/ failures in engines that you've heard about? Cheers, Pickles. |
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27th Jun 2013 10:29pm |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731  
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Here's my "acid test" - with the newest BAS remap, I can leave my hand on the gear knob at most speeds and rpm without vibration making my hand go numb. That has to indicate something good about the engine, or? Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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27th Jun 2013 10:43pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3645 
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Caterham, you are close to IRB why dont you take a visit and let us all know what you think. Looking at Ian's graph you would have a big chunk more torque right where you use your engine. DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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28th Jun 2013 5:24am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6300  
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lr90xs2011
I've been up to meet Ian several times and there's no doubt he knows his onions (and pinions)  (that was good for me)
with regards to my original question however I think the only way I'd be truly convinced a re-map was right for me would be to trial one (for lets say 12 years )
thats not going to happen so I'll have to consider the alternatives. the idea of the following greatly appeals to me - larger intercooler, de-cat (remove internals on existing), remove centre box on exhaust........and then perhaps the icing on the cake would be a re-map (as much as anything to optimism the engine and loose the egr) by then there will have been enough re-maps done and engine failures to know not to  |
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28th Jun 2013 5:54am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17451
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It is interesting to note that at least one of the highly-respected and accomplished engine tuners and remappers on this forum recommends not decatting the Puma lump when tuning.
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28th Jun 2013 7:35am |
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| Porny Site Sponsor Member Since: 31 Aug 2009 Location: Sutton Coldfield - West Midlands Posts: 809
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I have seen failures... but only from people who do not know what they are doing playing with calibration. These companies think they need to play with pulse width, injector timing and then try and increase the boost to get rid of the smoke (regardless of the fact they will never make the power they claim as other limits kick in). The over fuelling from playing with pulse width and timing leads to excessive smoke and high EGT – but more dangerously will lead to bore wash and ramped up bore/cylinder wear. My own Defender is the only Puma that I know of (anywhere in the world) that is running over 200bhp and over 550Nm - everyone told me that it could be done, and in fact as far as I know is actually making more torque than 'some' of the 3.2 conversions. In this state my Defender has done over 350 hours of rolling road testing including well over 500 full power runs (we have done 100 back to back in a day) prolonged steady state work, quite a few thousand road miles, a bit of track work ... and gets driven 'very enthusiastically' most of the time lol. And nothing has failed. Even my wife hasn’t broken it. Regardless of whether then engine is tuned or not – regular (on time) servicing with good quality oil is critical to the longevity of the Tdci engine. It is true that with any tuning working, the peak cylinder pressure will increase - but the Ford Tdcis’ are strong little engines (regardless of what some people might say). In Transit form you do get a higher power version than Defender - and because of this, there is quite a lot potential within the engine.
In my opinion, that is the wrong way to do it… The standard calibration in a Defender has been developed to work with the standard intercooler and standard exhaust. As such, changing components without changing the calibration means you will not get the full benefits. Removing the CAT and centre pipe dramatically reduces exhaust back pressure – which if you want to preserve the life of the turbo – means that the calibration should really be adjusted to match these changes. The same does apply to the intercooler – whilst a more efficient intercooler will keep air intake temperatures lower – the down side is that it is a big change to the air path circuit, and really this should be accounted for within the calibration. If it was me - I’d make sure everything is set up correctly (in terms of pilot correction and fuel pump learn) and then do a first level calibration change – with EGR removal – and a few changes to the air intake system. Ian IRB The home of the first modified Keswick Green 90 - and the first 2.4 Puma through both the 200bhp and 550Nm barriers. www.IRBdevelopments.com www.facebook.com/irbdevelopments www.integrated316.com www.facebook.com/integrated316 |
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28th Jun 2013 8:05am |
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| Pickles Member Since: 26 May 2013 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3785
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OK,...so if ya wanted say 180HP & 450Nm in a good solid road engine.....what would you have to do, besides the re-map?
Cheers, Pickles. |
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28th Jun 2013 8:16am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6300
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that told me. |
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28th Jun 2013 8:31am |
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