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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5843

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
Tow rope for a Motorhome
A friend has a Fiat based motorhome which weighs in at 5t with all the gear included.
They are off around Europe soon and are looking at a suitable tow rope/recovery gear

What spec should they be looking at for the vehicle?
This is one type that has been mentioned. http://www.slingsandstraps.co.uk/index.php...duct_id=92

I am not sure on what recovery points the vehicle has other than the screw in type towing eyes.
So what sort of rope/strop would be a good choice? or a combo of a rope and nylon strop? 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #224057 2nd Apr 2013 10:05am
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015

Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
What do they plan to recover with?

I am guessing it is ALL on the road? If so I would advise a tow-bar/ pole as that will be much safer. But remember that the MAXIMUM tow capability of a Defender is 3.5 ton (when it is braked) so the average car will have no hope.

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #224093 2nd Apr 2013 12:37pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17383

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Glynparry25 wrote:
What do they plan to recover with?

I am guessing it is ALL on the road? If so I would advise a tow-bar/ pole as that will be much safer. But remember that the MAXIMUM tow capability of a Defender is 3.5 ton (when it is braked) so the average car will have no hope.

Glyn Dog Sheep


That is the max gross trailed weight and really has no bearing on the gross weight a Defender can move. Ask anyone who's towed a stuck artic.

My personal record was set the day I moved a dead class 47 diesel loco weighing at least 114 tons about 30 yards along a siding, uphill, with my Disco2. There was admittedly a pungent smell of clutch, but it did the job with no ill effects.
Post #224110 2nd Apr 2013 1:58pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5843

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
Thanks chaps.
I think if the motorhome is down to its axles in mud, it will need more than just a tow rope, it will more likely be a chain around the axles and winch job!
So, I guess an 8t tow rope with a shackle/hook on each end would suffice for being towed on normal ground i.e tarmac/gravel but not for a full on dragging its ass out of mud/sand. 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #224482 4th Apr 2013 7:08am
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Glynparry25



Member Since: 16 Feb 2009
Location: Miserable Midlands
Posts: 3015

Wales 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Tonga Green
Blackwolf, I agree the Defender can tow much more (for a very short distance)..... but lets put it this way. 'You are driving down the road and a guy in a camper van weighing 5 tons flags you down and asks for a tow to the nearest garage..... Unless you know there is one just around the corner would you tow it? (and would you do it on a strop/ rope)?

Then there is insurance- if something happens- guess what, your insurance company will say 'good luck'.

If the police pull you over you are breaking the law.


Excossack,

Here are some very rough figures that can help you work out what sorts of forces you could be facing in different situations:

Quote:
SURFACE RESISTANCE

The exact makeup of mud, type of sand etc all affect the actual resistance. When calculating out resistance values, its always better to err on the side of caution.

Surface Type Resistance
Hard Surface 4% of vehicle weight
Grass 15% of vehicle weight
Gravel 20% of vehicle weight
Dry Sand 25% of vehicle weight
Clay Mud 50% of vehicle weight

DEPTH RESISTANCE

Simply put, the deeper the vehicle is stuck, the greater the amount of pull necessary to extract it.

Depth Resistance
Axle 100% of vehicle weight
Top of tires 200% of vehicle weight
Hood 300% of vehicle weight


I would say a minimum of 10ton SWL would be safe to work with for getting bogged in (and can double up for emergencies on road)..... Make sure it is SWL and not anything else. Again your problem is with what you are going to use to recover it with- a 2ton Land Rover wouldn't have a chance of recovering 5ton up to it's axles in mud (unless it has some extra gear). Probably minimum of a 4.5t truck.

Glyn Dog Sheep
Post #224595 4th Apr 2013 3:13pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17383

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Towing one vehicle with another is an extremely complex and poorly-established area of the law. Since it is only legal when using a rope to recover to the nearest place of safety (ie layby, parking area, etc) and not home or to a garage (unless of course they happen to be the nearest p.o.s.) it is probably no more illegal to tow a 5-ton or even a 30-ton vehicle than a 1-ton. You are technically committing a range of offences anyway, and only get away with it due to the general application of common sense. Undoubtedly in this revoltingly litiginous age you are exposing yourself to unlimited liability if it all goes Pete Tong or you have a run-in with the cash-for-crash scammers en-route.

Would I do it in the circumstances you postulate? No way. However if camper-dude asked me to tow him off the wet grassy pitch on which he's lost traction, I'd gladly do it.

Although I have no idea what the heaviest object towed by a Land-Rover is, a contender must surely be the occasion early in 1983 when a Scammell Contractor towing a large boiler from Hartlepool to Billingham stalled on Billingham bank due to a quirk of its semi-automatic transmission. Rather than reverse the outfit down the hill to take a run at it, a SIII was hitched to the front and was able to take the strain of the 200+ ton outfit just long enough for the Contractor to spin up and resume the ascent. Technically though very briefly the Land-Rover was towing the whole outfit unassisted in an incident now famous in heavy-haulage circles.

With knowledge and common sense, it is remarkable what can be done safely with a Landrover.
Post #224625 4th Apr 2013 5:35pm
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leeds



Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8581

United Kingdom 
What size snatch strap to use for a motorhome?


Finding good quality information on the proper use of snatch straps is difficult.

However this makes good reading

Quote:


SELECTING THE RIGHT RECOVERY STRAP
It is very important the correctly rated strap is used. A strap with a ‘too light’ breaking strength may break under load. A strap with ‘too heavy’ a breaking strength may not stretch properly and more stress will be placed on the recovery points, possibly causing damage or injury. The Minimum Breaking Strength (MBS) of the strap should be between 2 and 3 times the Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) of the ‘lighter’ of the two vehicles used in the recovery process. Be aware that the Recovery Strap will be under greater load if the vehicle is bogged in mud, sand or heavily loaded. If the GVM is not stated on the identification plate of a vehicle or its registration certificate it could be available from the owner’s handbook or from the vehicle manufacturer.
KEEPING PEOPLE SAFE
Only the drivers of the stranded and recovery vehicle should be in those vehicles. Nobody else should be in or on those vehicles. Ensure bystanders stay at least 1.5 times the un-stretched strap length away, to the side of the line of recovery. NEVER stand between vehicles connected by a Recovery Strap.
Page 1 of 2

SETTING UP THE RECOVERY
Assess the circumstances of the stranded vehicle. If it has bottomed out, clear under the vehicle body so it rests on its wheels. The recovery vehicle should be placed in line (no more than 10o off the straight line) with the stranded vehicle, for either a forward or reverse recovery operation. Distance between vehicles should be 2-3 metres less than the unstretched length of the Recovery Strap. Establish agreed signals between the vehicle drivers, by radio (preferably), hand signals or vehicle horn.
CONNECTING THE RECOVERY STRAP
Carefully inspect the Recovery Strap to determine that it is in good condition. If the strap is wet, dirty, cut or chaffed, it will not perform properly. A wet strap may be 20% under strength, a damaged strap may break. Do not allow the strap to contact hot surfaces or sharp edges.
Roll the strap out between the vehicles, and make sure there are no twists and leave about 2-3 metres slack between the vehicles. The joining of straps should be avoided wherever possible (Retailers carry varying lengths of strap). NEVER USE A METAL OBJECT to join straps – if the strap breaks it can become a missile and cause damage or injury.
Check your vehicle hand book for recovery point locations, or use correctly rated and fitted aftermarket recovery points. DO NOT CONNECT TO A TOW BALL OR TIE DOWN POINT. Connect Recovery Strap to recovery point, for any recovery point requiring the use of a shackle to attach the strap, use only load rated shackles. Only connect to correctly rated recovery points on the vehicles, with only ‘Load Rated’ shackles. Load ratings are marked on shackles as WLL (Working Load Limit). Bow Shackles are suitable for this purpose and should be rated at least 3.25t. To correctly tighten shackle pins, screw the pin until it seats then back off about 1⁄2 to 1 turn. Over tightening may lead to seized pins, due to the force exerted during recovery operations. To reduce the risk of vehicle damage and personal injury, hang a suitable recovery damper blanket, over the Recovery Strap, approximately midway to restrict the whipping action of a strap should it break.
Last thing – Check all connections and clear bystanders to a safe distance (1.5 times the un-stretched Recovery Strap length) to the side of the recovery operation and NEVER in the line of recovery.






I would suggest shackles of wll of 4.75 tonnes and that the motorhome carries two recovery straps.

A 8,000kg mbs and a 11,000 kg mbs. Strap is then selected on the weight of the recovery vehicle.

PLEASE, please have the tow point or better still RECOVERY point on the motorhome checked out. If the motorhome gets bogged down you could be talking about forces exceeding 10 tonnes.



Have said it before, will say it again. Once people are safe your responsibilities end. Do NOT, repeat NOT try a recovery that you are unhappy to do. Walk/drive away from it. Better to be considered an @£$%hole and be safe and have your vehicle safe then try something you are not happy to do.


Brendan
Post #224667 4th Apr 2013 7:40pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5843

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
Thanks Brendan, I have passed the info on. 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #227825 16th Apr 2013 2:23pm
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tacr2man



Member Since: 02 Oct 2008
Location: J10 M40
Posts: 20

Dont go getting a big strong tow rope to pull a motorhome exceeding a swl of more than about 5 tonne . The reason is the strength of the end you will be fixing to, eg the towball on the landy or the tow eye on the motorhome. It is far safer to snap a nylon rope than balistically launch a piece of metalwork. I would suggest a nylon rope, with eyes plaited at each end . Certainly dont try and tow with a "snatch" strap or Kerr , especially if the operators are not used to towing . The best answer for any extended towing is a solid tow pole , they are not that bulky and are way safer when dealing with inexperience. There is no minimum length for tow rope , but over 1.5mtr it must be marked , ie with flag, and max length is 4.5mtrs.

Heres a good source
http://www.ropeservicesuk.com/tow-ropes

Usual disclaimers as to commercial interest


HTSH

PS have towed a Mack lowloader at 54tonnes , over a mile and push started a two trailer roadtrain with my 110V8 CSW , did it easy .............. its the stopping that is the fun part !!
Post #247636 29th Jun 2013 6:23pm
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excossack



Member Since: 22 Feb 2012
Location: North West
Posts: 5843

United Kingdom 1999 Defender 110 Td5 SW Caledonian Blue
The couple in the camper van are already touring France so not sure what they have purchased but an email I got a few weeks ago, did inform me that they have already been stuck on campsite and needed the assistance of the owner with his tractor, 1999 Defender TD5 110

Regards
John M0VAZ
Econet Station 48 no clock
Post #247687 29th Jun 2013 9:08pm
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