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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298   
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guys I need some help (sorry - no change there).
I had some muppets come in and 'help' me fit a steel beam sometime back and I've never got round to fixing the problem only now I've been forced into sorting it asap. basically removed structural wall and replaced with steel. the wall supported floor joist converging from two directions. the joists were notched out and hence strength reduced. I'm now looking to support the joists off hangers. hopefully the picture shows my intension. any thoughts / suggestions? thank you very much  Click image to enlarge |
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24th Mar 2013 8:16pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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thanks mate.
Killer  ? |
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24th Mar 2013 8:21pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20294 
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Drop him a PM and I'm sure he can ask his dad for you about it or failing that contact you or something.
http://www.defender2.net/forum/member2308.html ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️ |
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24th Mar 2013 8:23pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443 
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That's pretty much the right idea. Usually the timbers on top of the steel are fixed to the steel, hire a Spit gun, fires hardened nails into the steel beam fixing the timber to the steel(could play safe and glue as well) Take the steel timber up to the same height as th top of the joists as well. Another thing to do is to pack out the voids inside the web of the I beam with timber so that the "cut ends" of the joists are butt up to a solid surface, this also gives you somewhere to nail the vertical faces of the Speedy hangers. A general rule of thumb for those hangers is that "if there's a nail hole, there has to be a nail fixing in it". If you know any timber frame erectors then they can give advice or even sort it out for you in a very short time, they deal with this type of thing all the time plus they'll have the gadgets such as Spit guns and PPN's (Positive Placement Nailers, real black thumb preventors!)
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24th Mar 2013 8:55pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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I would without thinking about it take the timbers on top of the steel up to the same level as the floor joists. only problem being there's som hot and cold 15mm pipes running the length of the steel and was hoping to leave them in place. if however you tell me I'm mad and should re-route the pipes to enable more timber ontop of the steel then so be it. there is already timber in web of the steel.
thanks very much. |
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24th Mar 2013 9:04pm |
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| 238kirk Member Since: 03 Nov 2012 Location: Doncaster Posts: 233 
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Ideally you need the timber bolted into the webbing of the steel beam so you can fix the hangers to it, so going by your drawing the steel needs to be lifted abit, bolts at 600 centres
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24th Mar 2013 9:05pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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unfortunately can't really move the beam as this is a retro fit - the beam is already in place and as much as I want to get it right in terms of strength I'm trying to minimise damage and remedail works. the beam is already clad in plaster however there is plenty of ready between steel and plaster to left and right (not underneadth).
the timber ontop of the steel will be circa 15mm lower than top of floor joists. the speedy hangers will hopefully fix to timbers in the steel web but mostly to the timber ontop of the steel as it goes up and over (wrapped around the timber). thanks for all the responses so far |
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24th Mar 2013 9:25pm |
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| 238kirk Member Since: 03 Nov 2012 Location: Doncaster Posts: 233
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That will be ok then but I'd recommend bolting/nailing the top timber to the steel and filling all the holes in the hangers as jwl suggests
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24th Mar 2013 9:47pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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thank you very much for all responses.
one last question. do you think a speedy / long leg hanger would be better than a 'structural' hanger. the type that are more normally used on masonary walls (or are they only for masonary walls - I thinks they have very short legs but are heavier gauge steeel) ? this forum never ends to amuse at how helpful it is. thanks. |
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24th Mar 2013 9:53pm |
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| barbel jim Member Since: 12 Dec 2012 Location: Northants Posts: 1419 
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Speedy hangers should be fine as the steel is replacing original brick work.There should be no extra strain on the joists as long as they are packed out on top of the steel. You'll need slate as it won't deteriorate. Then I would put noggins in between the joists so as they cannot move side ways independently.
Do you not have a structural engineers report stating gauge of steel ??? Load bearings, and local building control inspection ?? If not would render insurance void and could cause all sorts of issues with your mortgage provider. PM me a phone number if you need to discuss further JimLast edited by barbel jim on 24th Mar 2013 10:15pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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24th Mar 2013 10:14pm |
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| 238kirk Member Since: 03 Nov 2012 Location: Doncaster Posts: 233
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Yes the "speedy" type are timber to timber, the other one is timber to brick/masonry. Timber to timber will be what you need and are a lot easier as they're nice and flexible, good luck with it
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24th Mar 2013 10:15pm |
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| JWL Member Since: 26 Oct 2011 Location: Hereford Posts: 3443
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The floor joists are absolutely fine for attaching joists to the hanging beam, if the hanging beam was a Gluelam(A laminated beam made of timber in place of the steel) then you would find the thicker steel hangers at each end of that. Good call to put noggins between, just remember the more you can do to stop any movement the less chance your floor will squeak in years to come
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24th Mar 2013 10:28pm |
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| barbel jim Member Since: 12 Dec 2012 Location: Northants Posts: 1419
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Noggins will eliminate most the twist in the Floor joists. Always done it here but am very aware building regs can alter geographically. +1 for stopping floor squeak. If your using chip board sheets GLUE them on final fit otherwise they will creak and bang for ever  |
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24th Mar 2013 10:39pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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thanks guys. need to get the acro's off hire. |
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25th Mar 2013 7:25am |
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