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CapeLandy



Member Since: 21 Jul 2008
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 558

South Africa 
Battery Question
Noticing lately that the battery monitor is showing that the main battery is taking quite a few seconds (7sec.) to jump back into the green after cranking the engine.

Could this be a tired battery or alternator problem?

While on our long trip we had a few occasions when camping for 3 days the second battery got a little flat and then when the solenoid kicks in after starting I assume the charge from the main battery rushes to fill the flatter of the two and could cause a bit of strain on the main unit. - could this shorten the life of the main battery?

Appretiate some advise.

Our lady is at the dealer for the new power steering box so I may ask them to check the battery/alternator depending on your opinions. Puma 110 - gone
Series III 1973 - going strong
Post #20048 14th Dec 2009 8:12am
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
Multimeter!
Could be one or the other, a voltage comparison check across the battery terminals with engine off and engine running should give you a clue. Even this check will not show how good your battery is at holding the charge though. (Battery capacitance value).
If both batteries are parallelled off (connected to each other) and the charge is significantly reduced on one - both will share the load. Effectively one will drag the other down. Could be several possibilities but that simple check above would be a good starting point! Hope this makes sense! If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #20050 14th Dec 2009 9:14am
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Sticky



Member Since: 07 Dec 2008
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 245

England 2016 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Stornoway Grey
I had this exact problem on the twin battery system on my Patrol, the auto electrician explained that my twin charge system let the primary battery charge / balance the second system, this destroyed the starter battery in a year.

He told me that better split charge systems don't allow this and charge the batteries independantly, but I couldn't face shelling out on another system so he installed a 'throttle' that stopped the split charge system from working when the primary battery dropped below a certain percentage of capacity and I have had no problems at all since it was installed despite using the secondary battery for days at a time.
Post #20051 14th Dec 2009 9:36am
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CapeLandy



Member Since: 21 Jul 2008
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 558

South Africa 
Sticky wrote:
I had this exact problem on the twin battery system on my Patrol, the auto electrician explained that my twin charge system let the primary battery charge / balance the second system, this destroyed the starter battery in a year.

He told me that better split charge systems don't allow this and charge the batteries independantly, but I couldn't face shelling out on another system so he installed a 'throttle' that stopped the split charge system from working when the primary battery dropped below a certain percentage of capacity and I have had no problems at all since it was installed despite using the secondary battery for days at a time.


That sounds like the perfect solution - can you explain the "throttle" part some more? Puma 110 - gone
Series III 1973 - going strong
Post #20053 14th Dec 2009 9:57am
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robharvey



Member Since: 14 Dec 2009
Location: Durban
Posts: 86

South Africa 2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White
James,

Is the "throttle" you are looking for a voltage sensitive relay (VSR)?

Have a look here:

http://www.bepmarine.com/125-Amp-Voltage-S...-1468.html

Rgds

Rob
Post #20057 14th Dec 2009 11:38am
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CapeLandy



Member Since: 21 Jul 2008
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 558

South Africa 
robharvey wrote:
James,

Is the "throttle" you are looking for a voltage sensitive relay (VSR)?

Have a look here:

http://www.bepmarine.com/125-Amp-Voltage-S...-1468.html

Rgds

Rob


Rob, that's not the one. My National Lunar performs the same function as the one in your link. Problem is that when the solenoid kicks in there is a sudden rush from the full to the empty battery that I would prefer something that could reduce the amperage and act like a trickle to the empty battery. Puma 110 - gone
Series III 1973 - going strong
Post #20060 14th Dec 2009 12:15pm
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alantd



Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: Northamptonshire
Posts: 1513

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Tonga Green
Sticky wrote:
I had this exact problem on the twin battery system on my Patrol, the auto electrician explained that my twin charge system let the primary battery charge / balance the second system, this destroyed the starter battery in a year.

He told me that better split charge systems don't allow this and charge the batteries independantly, but I couldn't face shelling out on another system so he installed a 'throttle' that stopped the split charge system from working when the primary battery dropped below a certain percentage of capacity and I have had no problems at all since it was installed despite using the secondary battery for days at a time.


What setup did you have on your patrol? If I start from scratch, which system should I go for? One that started out as a 2.4 TDCi 110 XS
+ New Defender 110 First Edition
Post #20061 14th Dec 2009 12:42pm
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CapeLandy



Member Since: 21 Jul 2008
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 558

South Africa 
Re: Multimeter!
K9F wrote:
Could be one or the other, a voltage comparison check across the battery terminals with engine off and engine running should give you a clue. Even this check will not show how good your battery is at holding the charge though. (Battery capacitance value).
If both batteries are parallelled off (connected to each other) and the charge is significantly reduced on one - both will share the load. Effectively one will drag the other down. Could be several possibilities but that simple check above would be a good starting point! Hope this makes sense!


Speaking of holding charge - when I used to switch off the engine (with only main battery connected) the indicator used to stay in the green for quite a few minutes before slowly climbing down to 12,4V. Now it just ticks back in a few seconds to the orange LED. Seems the main battery should have a load test to confirm that it's a little tired by now.
According to the manaul the load test would be a little too complicated for the average Battery salesman. Shocked Puma 110 - gone
Series III 1973 - going strong
Post #20066 14th Dec 2009 1:12pm
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K9F



Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

United Kingdom 2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey
RE: Multimeter Again!
A capacitance check is when a charged battery is connected to a resistive load and fully discharged over time. Not sure of the formula but the result is classed as a percentage. I am aware that Halfords over here have an 'electronic gismo' that works in seconds and can also state whether your battery is good at holding a charge. I had one replaced by Halfords on year three of a four year warranty for that very reason. Your average battery salesman/supplier may be able to assist if he has the equipment. Sorry if my explanation is a bit vague!

Just added this linky thingy to explain clearer! May help!

http://www.instructables.com/id/AmpHourTest/ If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!
Post #20068 14th Dec 2009 1:31pm
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