 | Home > Technical > TD5 defender headlight failure - HELP PLEASE |
 
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| Kev stephenson Member Since: 27 Feb 2012 Location: Huddersfield Posts: 56   
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I've got a 2005 defender 110 T5 XS and on friday 50 miles into a 250 mile drive in the dark my headlights failed. I still have sidelights and the pull to flash works on the main beam but I have no dipped beam or high beam on pushing the stalk.
1. The switch itself feel firm enough and causes the relay to click on moving the switch to sidelights and again to dipped beam. 2. I have run a multimeter over the relay and can find 1 wire which is live with ignition on and switch off, this then goes to 2 showing 12v at sidelight position and 3 showing 12v at dipped beam position. I assume this is the input to the relay which causes the click. I can't understand why when the relay clicks I don't get an additional 12v signal (output) on one of the other wires. 3. There is 0v at both the fuses associated with the dipped beam headlights. The fuses are intact. Can anyone provide a detailed description pin by pin for this relay? Where is the live feed to this relay from? I can't seem to figure out how 1 relay can run 2 fuses and 2 lights seperately unless the feed to the relay is unfused or comes from something which isn't marked correctly/clearly. Any help on this would be much appreciated. Not being able to drive the thing between 9am and 3.30pm is driving me mad. Thanks in advance Kev 2005 110 TD5 XS running Alive Stage 1 and a bit and other toys 1996 130 300TDi chip truck for tree surgery business |
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17th Dec 2012 8:16pm |
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| Dave-H Member Since: 08 Feb 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 1507  
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Dispite all your findings, don't dis-count the switch ... its the usual suspect 95% of the time
 Guns and Landrovers .... anything else is irrelevant. |
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17th Dec 2012 8:19pm |
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| Kev stephenson Member Since: 27 Feb 2012 Location: Huddersfield Posts: 56
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I have tested the switch and it seems it only switches the relay, which it is doing so I can't see why it would be at fault. I could be wrong but not sure how and don't want to just throw money at the problem replacing bits until I eventually replace the right one, hence asking on here.
Regarding the broken wire can anyone tell me roughly where it runs or provide a wiring diagram so I can bell it out. There is no roon in the back of the dash to just go feeling each wire in the hope of finding a break. Thanks 2005 110 TD5 XS running Alive Stage 1 and a bit and other toys 1996 130 300TDi chip truck for tree surgery business |
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17th Dec 2012 8:35pm |
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| VeeTee Member Since: 06 Mar 2011 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1512 
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Most likely the switch failure. See my post earlier: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic16451-7.html
If you measure the voltage at the contacts with a multimeter, there is no load and you may well measure 12V then. But when you apply a load (lamps on) and there is a contact resistance, the voltage will drop dramatically. Some times the contact points of the switch look OK and by measuring with a multimeter seem OK, but in reality the switch has gone wrong. Cheers, Vincent 1959 Polynorm 1/4 Ton Trailer, Olive Drab Green (sold) 1970 M416 Military Trailer (Camping Trailer Conversion), Epsom Green (sold) 1975 Series III 88 V6, Light Green (sadly sold) 1996 Defender 110 CSW 300 Tdi, Epsom Green (sold) 2000 Freelander 1 TD4 3-drs, Silver (sold) 2006 Freelander 1 TD4 5-drs Facelift Automatic, Tonga Green (sold) MySite |
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17th Dec 2012 8:49pm |
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| Kev stephenson Member Since: 27 Feb 2012 Location: Huddersfield Posts: 56
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What does the relay do then if the switch is full load? 2005 110 TD5 XS running Alive Stage 1 and a bit and other toys
1996 130 300TDi chip truck for tree surgery business |
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17th Dec 2012 9:06pm |
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| VeeTee Member Since: 06 Mar 2011 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1512
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According to the electrical scheme, there is no relay between switch and headlamps. I drive a 300Tdi (1996), not a TD5, so I do not have hands on experience, but I'm pretty sure this the same in both models. Note: This scheme is for MY2002, the wiring diagram for a 300 Tdi is here. Cheers, Vincent 1959 Polynorm 1/4 Ton Trailer, Olive Drab Green (sold) 1970 M416 Military Trailer (Camping Trailer Conversion), Epsom Green (sold) 1975 Series III 88 V6, Light Green (sadly sold) 1996 Defender 110 CSW 300 Tdi, Epsom Green (sold) 2000 Freelander 1 TD4 3-drs, Silver (sold) 2006 Freelander 1 TD4 5-drs Facelift Automatic, Tonga Green (sold) MySite |
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17th Dec 2012 9:33pm |
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| Dave-H Member Since: 08 Feb 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 1507
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As Vee said, switching is direct, no relay [Thats why an often recommended mod for better/brighter headlights is to rewire with better cable and via relay's]
Relay your hearing is probably down to the switch being kaput, so the current finds it own path elsewhere [as power will always take path of least resistance] Trust us .. its the switch, it always is ... Guns and Landrovers .... anything else is irrelevant. |
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17th Dec 2012 9:37pm |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2672 
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There is a headlamp relay. Connector C0282, behind the fusebox panel on the bulkhead. I believe it only serves to enable/disable the headlamps with the ignition though. I.e. The headlamps can only be on with ignition on.
There's also the dim-dip relay (if fitted) which has an effect on headlight function. |
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17th Dec 2012 9:49pm |
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| Kev stephenson Member Since: 27 Feb 2012 Location: Huddersfield Posts: 56
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There is a pinkish relay on the left hand end of the bank of relays which are behind the clocks. This clicks when the switch is moved. I will fit a new switch and report back with results. 2005 110 TD5 XS running Alive Stage 1 and a bit and other toys
1996 130 300TDi chip truck for tree surgery business |
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17th Dec 2012 9:54pm |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2672
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That pink one is the dim-dip relay. That can cause issues. There is a replacement "dummy" relay available which does away with it (dim-dip no longer a requirement in UK law):
http://www.brit-car.co.uk/product.php?xProd=138745 To test the theory, you could try removing it and bridging the two blue-red wires together. If the headlamps then work then it's this dim-dip thing that's the problem. Here's a photo showing which pins to bridge to test it: 
Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  |
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17th Dec 2012 10:00pm |
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888 
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It'll be the switch, the main dip/full one. the contact that supplies power to the two positions goes high resistance causing it to fail. High beam "flash" gets it's power via a different route. If you are handy with a soldering iron you can normally get it working again by soldering the brass post to the copper track it's supposed to make contact with... but watch for the plastic support melting !
Click image to enlarge The blue wire is the supply into the switch, you can see the repair I did to fix it although I later replaced the assembly just in case and have kept the repaired one as a spare. To test it check to see if there is power (with the lights on) at the blue wire and on the copper strip itself. If you partially slide the blue wire off the post you'll find you have power on the brass post but not on the copper track it is riveted to. This seems to be the common point of failure for this switch. The main switch can also fail but normally you can feel that that isn't right and it sounds as if the dim dip relay is firing which suggests the main switch is working OK. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ |
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17th Dec 2012 10:13pm |
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| Kev stephenson Member Since: 27 Feb 2012 Location: Huddersfield Posts: 56
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And the winner this weeks of 'diagnose that fault' is DaveW.
In my case however the plastic which holds the bit that you have soldered has melted meaning the flat piece of copper with the post on was sitting a few mm closer to the steering wheel and not making contact as it should to allow the headlights to work A 10 minute job to change once I managed to get the steering wheel off (45 minutes!!!) To all those that said it WILL be the switch........not always the case!! Thanks again Kev 2005 110 TD5 XS running Alive Stage 1 and a bit and other toys 1996 130 300TDi chip truck for tree surgery business |
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19th Dec 2012 4:08pm |
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| VeeTee Member Since: 06 Mar 2011 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1512
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??? Dit you read my earlier post:
I told you it would melt... So the winner is...   Cheers, Vincent
1959 Polynorm 1/4 Ton Trailer, Olive Drab Green (sold) 1970 M416 Military Trailer (Camping Trailer Conversion), Epsom Green (sold) 1975 Series III 88 V6, Light Green (sadly sold) 1996 Defender 110 CSW 300 Tdi, Epsom Green (sold) 2000 Freelander 1 TD4 3-drs, Silver (sold) 2006 Freelander 1 TD4 5-drs Facelift Automatic, Tonga Green (sold) MySite |
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19th Dec 2012 5:31pm |
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| Dave-H Member Since: 08 Feb 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 1507
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Er - that IS the switch  Guns and Landrovers .... anything else is irrelevant. |
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19th Dec 2012 7:03pm |
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