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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731   
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I read somewhere that airbags need a little time to "wake up" and deploy. This occurs during the first milliseconds of crumpling. As the Defender's chassis is one of the first things to hit and is pretty rigid, with no crumple zone at all, by the time an airbag had gone up, the worst results of serious impact would already have happened. Apparently a "late" airbag is not a good idea... Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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11th Nov 2012 5:01pm |
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| Tony Member Since: 13 Mar 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 72  
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Exactly, but you wouldn't think so when you see the antics of drivers in certain German and Swedish cars who seem to think they're so safe in their safety cells.  |
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17th Nov 2012 6:04pm |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731
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Truth is they probably are though - I have seen some 100+ mph autobahn crashes here where BMW, Merc etc. drivers have walked away 
The problem is, as always, for the poor beggers in "normal" cars they hit. Tell someone you love them today because life is short. But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... |
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17th Nov 2012 6:17pm |
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| Landyphil Member Since: 23 Jul 2012 Location: Lake District Posts: 87 
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I remember a few years ago a dft survey was published that showed which drivers were mostly likely to become a full time harp player at the wheel.
I think Defenders were considered one of the safest bests off all vehicles on the road which was a bit bizarre really but pleasing non the less. 90XS Tdci John Eales 110 CSW G4 Edition 88" Series 3 Racer |
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18th Nov 2012 11:12am |
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| RRUK Site Supporter Member Since: 31 Mar 2010 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 2025
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All the classic ladder rail chassis land rovers are a bit of a liability if in a crash, did you see the Fifth gear crash test with a Discovery? You wouldnt have walked away.
here's some crashed defender pics. Not pretty  Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge 2016 D4 HSE 1998 110 TUM HS FFR Hard Top XD WOLF 1982 Series 3 SWB Petrol |
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18th Nov 2012 11:57am |
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| nick67 Member Since: 12 Nov 2012 Location: Timisoara Posts: 6  
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My Puma SVX on 100km/h on 10 May 2012.
Now is on duty again. http://www.tion.ro/galerie/1960845-7 Defender SVX 2008 Discovery 3 HSE 2005 Discovery 1 300Tdi 1995 |
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18th Dec 2012 2:35pm |
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| LR101 Member Since: 20 Dec 2012 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 3
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I would rather people learnt to drive probably than relied on their nanny state euro box for safety. Unfortunately people are losing a general sense of awareness while driving with air bag infested cars with sat navs that tell them how to get to work, parking sensor and even auto park systems. Often we judge accidents assuming we are fluent in the fact and have degrees in physics which in most case is unlikely . The photos of the defender posted by RRUK are interesting but you need to bear in mind one of these was run over by a train and another by a lorry and any other car would be in the same predicament. Again the 5th Gear program happened to be sponsored by Renault so there was a bias and I would guess the trauma outcome for the Disco would have been hyped up as a Renault sales pitch. What they didn’t emphasize on the program was that that discovery isn’t structurally dissimilar from a 40 year old plus prototype Range Rover (apart from welded roof etc) plus had Mr and Mrs Eurobox purchased a new Espace and put 2 of their 5 kids in very back row seats and same Land rover piled in to the back of them at 40mph they would be dead instantly (Generally I don’t take any motoring programs seriously or anything on the telly for that matter). Also RE 100mph accidents on the autobahn believe me BMW, Mercedes or not if you hit something solid at mph you don’t get out (ok parts of you might) please see the following thread re demise of a 2010 Audi A4 after drunk driver caught the nasty end of a 2004 LR Discovery 3 (heavy chassis plus rigid body) . http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showth...ht=carnage
While on the subject of Defenders and accidents the following is the result of a head on with Defender 110 and a Toyota Tacoma http://www.stabroeknews.com/2010/archives/...e-injured/ One thing I will say is that with any defender you should consider acquiring a decent approved roll cage prior to any other Bolton goodies as a priority I wouldn’t drive one without (something that would of helped some of the defenders in the accident photos below) |
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21st Dec 2012 10:24am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17432 
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I think that the reason that Defenders do well on lists of accident statistics is down to the fact that the majority of Defenders are reasonably well driven by thoughtful people in a sensible and defensive manner, and that there are relatively few of them. Remember that most of this statistics represent the likelyhood of being involving in a serious accident whilst you are driving, and not the probability of surviving a serious accident a serious accident in any particular vehicle.
You are less likely to be involved in an accident in a Defender. However if you are involved in an accident whilst in a Defender, you are more likely to suffer an injury and the injury is more likely to be severe. If Defenders were as popular, and driven by the same types of people, as, say, Vauxhall Corsas, then there would be a huge outcry about Defender safety. |
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21st Dec 2012 12:16pm |
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| Pam W Member Since: 25 Oct 2011 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 1169  
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Surely, it would depend on the severity of the accident how severe any injuries might be? 'An accident' could be a minor bump from behind or a head on collision. Our blog - http://landytravels.com/ Yorkshire Off Road Club - http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net |
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21st Dec 2012 1:14pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17432
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Of course. However given similar accident energies, you are less likely to walk away uninjured from a Defender. Statistically you are less likely to have the accident in the first place in a Defender. Since having accidents is inherently risky, overall you are safer in the Defender. |
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21st Dec 2012 3:14pm |
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| LR101 Member Since: 20 Dec 2012 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 3
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I agree defenders aren’t safe compare to equivalent modern vehicles however if look at some of the defender accidents that have occurred over the past few years (I am not a sad git honest!) the drivers often escape relatively unscathed while occupants of the other car don’t (often a weight and laws of physic thing as the other cars have been a lot smaller). For example the Defender 90 and the Renault Cleo in South Wales a few years ago that resulted in the tragic death of all but one of the occupants of the Cleo the LR occupants were ok. Another accident in Staffordshire (I think) involving a full head on with a TD5 110 hard top and a 2005 Mondeo where the driver of the 110 opened his door and walked out (the 110 was on its side though) while the Mondeo driver had to be cut out. More recently and appearing on a similar thread the Defender 90 towing a BMW on trailer having ahead on with an Audi –again the Driver got out of the 90 at the scene while the Audi driver was cut out.
Outcomes of an RTA are often dependent on circumstances as well as age a health of the driver (old people do not fare well even in minor accidents) . One thing you will notice is that in the more nasty accidents when Defender shave be rolled at speed (often after hitting another car because they tend to fall over)or have had the body side swiped by a lorry is that the chassis and running gear often remain intact all pointing to the face that the aluminum body work is pretty appalling if relied on for protection. Living in a military are there are often accidents with Wolf TUM Land Rovers and they always fair rather well and its noticeable that additional structuring and more modular body work vastly improve survivability. The same can be said for the CAV 100 land rover often involved with RTA incident during the Bosnia crisis back in the 90s. Basically a chassied Defender with some decent rigid but modular body work (with roll over protection) and chassis side protection would be fine |
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22nd Dec 2012 9:48am |
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| BigWheels Member Since: 21 Mar 2010 Location: Somerset Posts: 1405 
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Lucky too that most Defenders are diesels. Next year, a roll cage seems more important.
I'll find out if they raise or lower insurance premiums. Land Rover Defenders. 67 years heritage, minimal appearance changes, still going strong all over the world. Not a fashion vehicle, but fashionable to own. Made for the needy, not the greedy. Ta ta Defender |
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22nd Dec 2012 9:21pm |
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| Merlin Member Since: 30 Oct 2010 Location: Newmarket Posts: 981
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No airbags? No problem. I just keep a couple of balloons in the glove box, but you have to be quick!
Merlin |
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23rd Dec 2012 11:00am |
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| LR101 Member Since: 20 Dec 2012 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 3
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I definitely think the roll cage is a good idea although not sure if it would affect insurance or not.
RE air bags: rather than use balloons you could sellotape a ball of bubble wrap to the steering wheel boss ?  |
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23rd Dec 2012 5:07pm |
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