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defender4

Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: South East London
Posts: 411

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Java Black

No starter motor when wet

After driving in very wet conditions yesterday and stopping I found each time that I had no starter motor. The starter motor itself was not even turning over let alone turning the engine over. This has also occasionally happened before after washing the vehicle (2007 Puma). If left for a few minutes, sometimes longer, it will start so it would seem that water is getting in somewhere and causing a short and then eventually drying out enough to make a connection. i guess that something needs sealing up, anyone with any ideas what and how? I'm in the wilds of Scotland at the moment so could be a bit of a problem.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

17th Oct 2012 1:21pm

bob neville

Member Since: 30 Apr 2009
Location: Marbella
Posts: 3248

Bad earth would be the first and probably easiest thing to check.

Not 100% sure where the earthing points are (somebody will pop along in a minute to answer that

)
but follow the earth from the battery box to its earth point and also check the nagative side of the starter.

Good luck.

Bob 2015 Jaguar XE240 R Sport - goes like ....... !!
2013 Defender 90 CSW - sold
2009 Defender 110 Double Cab - sold
2001 TD5 90 CSW - offroad project - sold to a forum member
2011 Porsche Boxster - for the sunny days !

17th Oct 2012 1:47pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20263

At a guess I think the earth point for the starter is in the rough area of the front right wheel arch near the out rigger. There is a large earth strap in that area which isn't for the battery (I doubt) I swear I noticed it around there. Worth a look..

17th Oct 2012 3:34pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7979

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

sm will earth through the bell housing. some people run an additional earth straps to the sm mounting bolts/studs to improve the connection although this is generally not necessary and would indicate another problem with this being a work around rather than a solution to the problem.

assuming its not an immobiliser issue and is directly sm related i would assume the solenoid on the top of the sm is u/s. you can check it by applying 12 v direct to the sm solenoid ouput stud - this will turn the s/m

the solenoids are prone (LR ones generally) to moisture and then failure or intermittent faults.

if you remove the sm, you can then remove and replace the solenoid they are about £30 ish. (i expect a sm will be around £200ish)

i dont have a MPN for the Puma ones to hand. easiest way is to take it to local specialist - ie Hickley Valtone or similar or a LR parts specialist (Exeter 4x4) and get them to match the solenoid. you can normally upgrade to a Bosch one at the same time if its an after market SM. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

17th Oct 2012 4:11pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

Checking the connections on the starter unit is a good place to start to rule them out as the cause. Also you can use a DMM on the power feed to the starter motor, and do an amps check to see if there is any current present when turning the ignition key. You will be able then to tell if the issue is with the starter motor or the wiring.

Also it would help us further if you could answer the following questions?

When the starter fails to turn is there any dimming of the dash lights?
Does the red immobilizer light flash quickly when you try to start the Puma?
Is water getting inside the vehicle when its raining, ie are the floor mats getting wet?
If so does the drivers side mat get wet?

If so it may be a problem with the immobilizer rather than the starter connections, whether to ground or the live feed. Check the two plugs (Green and Grey) into the 10AS alarm unit for signs of corrosion, if there is corrosion then clean the male plugs and the female connections in the 10AS with electrical contact cleaner. It is well known that the windscreen seal is not the best and water leaking in and running down the bulkhead can contaminate the 10AS unit. If there is contamination present then it can block the serial comms between the 10AS and the IPAC which can lead to the mobilization signal not being transmitted. The immobilizer works by inhibiting the starter and injector circuits meaning that when immobilized the starter wont turn. Just a thought if the earth connections pan out.

HTH Brian.

17th Oct 2012 4:14pm

defender4

Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: South East London
Posts: 411

Thanks guys for your detailed answers. It's sounding like the solenoid.

Brian, answer to all four of your questions is 'no', hence my tentative conclusion.

I will follow all the advice and start by getting the solenoid looked at/replaced/upgraded asap.

Cheers

Rob

17th Oct 2012 7:17pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 7979

its not a big task to do yourself and save some ££££ Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

17th Oct 2012 7:54pm

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