 | Home > Wheels & Tyres > Winter tyres... |
 
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| BigWheels Member Since: 21 Mar 2010 Location: Somerset Posts: 1405   
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I use retreads (Craddock's Security 6.5 x 16) on my Series 2. If I want more modern, I'd go for th Insa Turbo Traction Track http://www.camskill.co.uk/m64b1634s234p595..._TL_/RS_GB Land Rover Defenders. 67 years heritage, minimal appearance changes, still going strong all over the world. Not a fashion vehicle, but fashionable to own. Made for the needy, not the greedy. Ta ta Defender |
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9th Oct 2012 5:38pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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AT2's have the snowflake symbol on them
 Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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9th Oct 2012 7:30pm |
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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069 
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are they winter compound ? from what I have read, they have the north American Snow symbol that means they are ok on ice but i can't find anything stating they are the winter compound |
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9th Oct 2012 7:35pm |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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I didn't realise that there was any difference, to be honest. They certainly work well in snow. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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9th Oct 2012 7:47pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816 
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Steve, that is not all quite correct. Seems there is a lot of confusion here. See remarks below in Italic...
[quote="bpman"]The topic of the thread is "winter tyres" - in simple terms: Winter tyres have a soft compound and work better when the temperature drops below 7C. That is correct, (softer compound usually with more silicone content). The below 7° argument probably is correct too, but also comes in handy as advertisement argument Snow tyres have a snow flake printed on them, these are made using the softer compound. Not quite correct. The snow flake on the mountain is the accepted and registered mark for a winter tire. A "snow" tire is a not well defined concept, often used in various ways by different tire manufacturers. The best available description is by Continental in following link. http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/...gs_en.html When I first bought snow tyres (legal requirement in Switzerland) This is not correct, snow tires are not a term used by lawmakers anywhere as it is not a clearly defined concept, wintertires are a clearly defined concept with the snow flake on the mountain the official mark, but they are not mandatory at all in Switzerland. The only thing that is mandatory is when you go to the mountains and if there is sufficient snow, the local authorities may put signs up that chains are mandatory to go beyond a certain point. This is then law (and usually controlled by police) irrespective if you have summer, winter, or snow M+S tires on. You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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9th Oct 2012 8:35pm |
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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069
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agreed Eric, they are not mandatory in CH, but if you have an accident the insurance company may not payout if you are not using winter tyres.
My ice defender came with M&S marked tyres but these were not made of soft compound but Philippe was happy to tell me that I did not have to change the tyres (even though I did). Markings and tread patterns aside, from a safety point of view, when driving on packed ice / snow surfaces, soft compound / winter tyres are much safer than all season tyres whether they are AT, MT or whatever - that is the point I was trying to make. the link does indeed have a great definition of tyre markings |
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9th Oct 2012 8:45pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816
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The person quoted by you there, earlier this spring when I was about to take the SVX to Belgium for Dinitrolling, still told me that he did not understand my logic of doing this, because Defenders these days (including mine, and yours too) are standard built on a galvanized chassis, yes?
  
As your M+S are the same OEM Grabbers as mine, which winter tires did you change for at the time you were here in Switzerland? The Nokians which are offered here by LR as a accessory, or other? Would like to hear if there are different real winter tires in 235/85-16, because at the time I did some research and did not find much or anything in that size. And, do you like them in the winter, makes any difference? Anyway I'm very pleased with my Nokians on modulars for the winter, actually Autobritt will put them on next week thursday at the same time as they will install the content of the boxes which arrived yesterday from Mobilecentre  You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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10th Oct 2012 3:46am |
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| Glynparry25 Member Since: 16 Feb 2009 Location: Miserable Midlands Posts: 3015  
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Why are people still using Winter and Snow together.Other than the fact it snows in winter, when it comes to tires they are comletly opposite.
Snow is like a a sand/ mud combination, this is why mud terrain/ All terrain tires get the M+S classification- they dig into the powder and carve their way through creating traction. Compacted snow and ice is just slippy. This is why you need a proper winter tire- as mentioned it is a compound that sticks much better than normal tires. Go on youtube and put in 'Winter tire tests' and you will get an endless list of tests in different countries by different people. But note that ALL the tests by profesional companies/ auto mags are on either compacted snow or ice..... they aren't bothered about testing in fresh powder (A lot in the US/ Canada even use their local ice rink). 90-95% of the people around the world drive on a road, so why would a company develop a tire for 5% of the people for only 30-50% of the year- the reserch would WAY out price the profit from sales. Because of this you will never have a Snow and winter tire combined............... But on that day snow chain companies will be bricking it!! Glyn   |
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10th Oct 2012 4:22am |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816
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Glyn, fully agree
Want to see the first person standing up here who in a winter is frequently driving on fresh non compacted snow
And.... snow chain companies will not be bricking me, the day that it really snows, my snow chains (4 of them of course) will be readily available in the back of the Defender You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation.
http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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10th Oct 2012 4:31am |
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| bpman Member Since: 21 May 2008 Location: Oslo Posts: 8069
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Eric I bought cooper discoverer M+S, recommended by a Norwegian friend of mine, Nokians also very very good in the cold / snow / ice ... whatever
Yes, the salesman also told me they were galvanized
video ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfvyPtYR0Y |
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10th Oct 2012 6:14am |
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| chiefstoker Member Since: 11 Oct 2010 Location: Weston-super-Mud Posts: 897  
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Some good info on this thread
Never really get that badder winters in zummerzet but you never know, my GG's have the Marks & Spencer logo and they have worked alright for me past, adjusting your driving style to suit helps most  Its mainly the other road users that are my concern 2005 TD5 90 Hard Top
Beer 'n Sex 'n Chips 'n Gravy |
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11th Oct 2012 5:28am |
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| Glynparry25 Member Since: 16 Feb 2009 Location: Miserable Midlands Posts: 3015
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When I was working in Yorkshire I was regularly driving across the pennies, only about 30% of the roads get cleared and th rest are left to drift over- I always took these routes because they were less likely to be blocked by regular car drivers. And for fun I snowboard on the freshest powder I can find which tends to push me towards driving off the beaten track to find these routes. Now in Cyprus.... they don't have a road clearing service other than for the main roads around Troodos so whenever going up there it is always fun to take a few back roads
It was this trip that persuaded me to buy chains- 5Km of drifts, and nearly through to the other side just to be stopped about 1Km sort because of a larger drift on a slight incline................So much effort, so little reward 
This is how the truck looks on regular winters: Click image to enlarge I miss the Alps........ Driving them next year though so all is good
Glyn :sheep:
Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  |
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11th Oct 2012 6:18am |
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| ZeDefender Member Since: 15 Sep 2011 Location: Munich Posts: 4731  
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Hopefully to simplify - this is what our local Munich (very competent) tyre dealer/fitter explained to me:
Summer tyres are made of a harder compound to improve wear and reduce noise. The tread pattern is also designed accordingly, and also to reduce the possibility of aquaplaning at high speeds. They require no marking. Winter (that includes some "all-rounder") tyres are principally designed for slippery surfaces that you will find on roads (not "off-piste"), e.g. ice and compacted snow. Consequently they should be made of softer compound to grip under these conditions and their tread designed to dissipate more water/slush (e.g. with siping). They do not wear as well as Summer tyres (especially when the temperatures increase) and are usually quite noisy on dry roads. Winter tyres/wheels should be narrow so they cut through snow/slush etc. hopefully to find grip underneath. Here's the important bit: it is law here to have the correct tyre for the weather conditions - that is the only requirement. Whilst you can use winter tyres in summer (although braking distance can increase and the compound hardens over summer) you cannot (legally or for insurance) use summer tyres if the conditions (even just frost) require winter ones. Generally, the marking M+S means you are okay, although, as I mentioned before, tyre manufacturers (especially asian) can put it on anything (their discretion) because it is not a protected trademark. However, the newer "snowflake" symbol is protected and designates that the tyre is entirely suitable for winter and snow. It is a softer compound and has deeper treads for ice, compacted and non-compacted snow. If you use it you are 100% legal (in winter, at least), unless there is "Kettenpflicht" - snowchain requirement. "Snow tyres", unlike the snowflake symbol, is not a defined, protected or legal term and they need have no marking at all... if you don't drive on-road! Otherwise, for road use, the previous rules apply and you can choose whatever tread pattern you think will get you through "the white devil" as they call it here
So in winter conditions, if you use a narrow M+S tyre from a reputable manufacturer, with a soft compound and decent tread (frequently looks more "car-like" than what we usually associate with Defenders) you should have no problems from a safety or legal aspect. If you want to be 100% certain, buy snowflake tyres (various treads according use) which are approved for all winter conditions. "Winter" here (for tyres) is generally considered to be October to Easter, i.e. 1/2 the year 
Finally, as I found out last winter, no tyre can replace good driving in poor conditions. Driving downhill on slush over ice is really bad news whatever boots you're wearing
Hope that might help. p.s. Didn't stop me just buying the cheapest M+S tyres for the A2 though, as it's only used in emergencies  Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing... Last edited by ZeDefender on 11th Oct 2012 8:45am. Edited 3 times in total |
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11th Oct 2012 8:02am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17372 
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Glyn, totally OT (so my apologies) but may I ask where you got your rock sliders? They look to be just what I am after!
Thanks. |
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11th Oct 2012 8:32am |
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