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Jiiim

Member Since: 21 Jun 2016
Location: Ea
Posts: 12

Puma 2015 engine clatter / knock

Hi all,

Starting this thread to document my attempts to resolve an annoying knock from the 2.2TDCI engine in my 110 Puma. Approx 120K miles on the clock now.

It's had a bit of a 'tap' noise from the engine for a while now.
Sounds very like a stuck tappet to me, but no one seems to be able to diagnose.
A reputable dealer stated cam chain and replaced it (at great expense!) which improved the engine subjective performance, but the tap remained.

Then of course the worst happened. Driving along last week, the tap suddenly changed from a tap to a 'holy cow that sounds like a piston coming through the bonnet'. But then it stopped and ran quiet.
It now comes and goes, alternating between trouser-filling and really quiet.

So here goes:
I took the top end apart, and ordered a new rack of tappets (quite a nice design - the tappets and rocker arms come out as a rack of sixteen in an assembly).
Everything looked clean and nice in there. Nothing 'looked' broken.
I also verified no valves were sticky by individually actuating each one with a lever - all good.
New tappet and rocker assembly arrived in the post and will be fitted this weekend.
Whilst the injectors are out, I'll get them tested.

I'll report back - wish me luck.

If that doesn't sort it, the only other things I can think of would be:
- Little end going - but that doesn't explain the noise coming and going.
- Piston breaking up - with the bits periodically sticking a valve open.

Fingers crossed. Other thoughts or investigations welcomed.
Jim.

6th Feb 2025 5:55pm

mwestcrew

Member Since: 09 Dec 2019
Location: South Warwickshire
Posts: 282

2011 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Baltic Blue

I think I might have started with a compression test to see if there was a damaged piston or a valve seating issue.

Were all the injectors in tight and sealing properly when you stripped the top end?

If it persisted and you knew the valve train to be good I would do an injector learn and see if that quietened it down, I’ve had a couple of Pumas that rattled like a bag of bolts that quietened down nicely after a learn. 2011 130 Utility Body
2005 110 Van

6th Feb 2025 7:23pm

Jiiim

Member Since: 21 Jun 2016
Location: Ea
Posts: 12

Thanks!

The injectors were all good and tight before removal. No signs of leakage around them either.

Would be great if I've jumped the gun assuming it was a tappet - but the metallic clanking made me think it wasn't even going to get home!

I don't have an OBD tool yet, but aiming to get one.
Was considering an LR III, if this does everything needed?
I was told that the 2.2 doesn't have an injector learn facility (the 2.4 does). Would be great if that's wrong, and this is something else to try.

6th Feb 2025 7:34pm

mwestcrew

Member Since: 09 Dec 2019
Location: South Warwickshire
Posts: 282

I don’t have a 2.2 to check this on but I believe there is a function. I use the free Ford disgnostic software called Forscan, a laptop and an ELM27 cable. The ELM must have the dual speed switch.
They are on Amazon.

Before I put the injectors back in I think I might try to get a borescope down to look at each piston. 2011 130 Utility Body
2005 110 Van

6th Feb 2025 9:10pm

jim4244

Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 853

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Zermatt Silver

Hi

I would be tempted to drop the oil and check for metal or filings. 120k mileage is not a lot on a well serviced 2.2..

Jim

7th Feb 2025 4:02am

jbcollier

Member Since: 29 Apr 2024
Location: Edmonton AB
Posts: 167

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White

Check the injector seats. Clean them properly at a minimum, refinish them if they are at all suspect.

7th Feb 2025 6:18am

Jiiim

Member Since: 21 Jun 2016
Location: Ea
Posts: 12

Thanks all.

Coming along nicely today.
New rocker and tappet assembly in, with new bolts, torqued to 10nm + 30 degrees as per workshop manual.

Now refitting (original) injectors (I figure test one thing changed at a time, in this instance the tappets)

Bit of a quandary here, using the LR workshop manual for the 2.2 TDCI:
In the front of the manual there is a table that lists fitting torque for injectors as: 6nm + 180 degrees.
However, there is a later section in the manual with pictures for removal where it lists: 6nm + 360 degrees.

Anyone know what the correct figure is?

9th Feb 2025 1:01pm

jbcollier

Member Since: 29 Apr 2024
Location: Edmonton AB
Posts: 167

That section you have to read carefully as the injector torques are not laid out very clearly. 180° is for 2.4 injectors and 360° is for 2.2 injectors. They have different hold-down clamps and injector hold-down bolt lengths, thus the different procedures.

9th Feb 2025 1:27pm

Ianh

Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 2146

mwestcrew wrote:
I don’t have a 2.2 to check this on but I believe there is a function. I use the free Ford disgnostic software called Forscan, a laptop and an ELM27 cable. The ELM must have the dual speed switch.
They are on Amazon.

Before I put the injectors back in I think I might try to get a borescope down to look at each piston.

Forscan is ok for 2.4’s but does not work on the 2.2’s.

A Nanocom can now code the 6 figure injector codes for a 2.2. The GAP IDTool can also code injectors for the 2.2

9th Feb 2025 4:49pm

Erik256

Member Since: 05 Mar 2013
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 26

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Keswick Green

I have a 2007 2,4, so a very early one. I had a tick/knock with a cold engine, that disappeared when the engine warmed up. However, the temperature threshold for the knock to disappear, was slowly creeping up. I also suspected lifters or the dreaded piston cooling jet issue (only applicable to early pumas). The injectors were tight, no blowby, no smoke. Still, last month, I decided do replace the in injector seals as the first step. The fourth injector had a very slight mark on the seal. Nothing else. Engine was super clean inside. Cleaned the seats, fitted new copper seals and injector clamp bolts and the knock is gone. So from my experience, I would recommend starting with the injector seals.

11th Feb 2025 8:19am

Jiiim

Member Since: 21 Jun 2016
Location: Ea
Posts: 12

so...progress to report:

New rocker assembly fitted - quite a nice straightforward job.
All torqued up as per manual with new stretch bolts.

Injector seats in the head looked spotless

I refitted the old injectors, with new copper sealing washers which I annealed before fitting.
Again, all torqued up with new stretch bolts.
Had to replace one of the leak off connectors - I think they might be made of cheese.

Started up, got it all running, no difference.
So that's eliminated the rockers and tappets, and the injector sealing, from the equation.

Next - injectors out again, and off to the local diesel specialist for testing.
Result: Just heard back - All four are scrap!

I'll be visiting them this afternoon to purchase a set of four brand new injectors.
GAP IID tool also incoming (which I will need, amongst other things, to code them in)

(My wallet says Ouch!)

12th Feb 2025 1:36pm

Jiiim

Member Since: 21 Jun 2016
Location: Ea
Posts: 12

So...

Looks like it's terminal - significant quantities of metal swarf in the oil.

I'm told this is most likely a big end giving up, based on the noise it's making.

Any recommendations for decent garages in the Cambridge area that can fit 2.2 TDCI?
(Or should I man up and do this myself?)

24th Feb 2025 3:53pm

andy63

Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 633

Sorry to hear that..
If you have the time I'd be stripping the engine down to confirm what has happened and take it from there ..see what can be reused and what will need replacing...
The days of folk rebuilding engines seems to be getting less economical because of labour costs but if you have the time and the inclination I'd do that..
Good luck.. i hope its salvageable..

24th Feb 2025 5:35pm

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