 | Home > General & Technical (L663) > OCTA - The Gentleman's Bowler!? |
 
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| Stacey007 Member Since: 25 Sep 2015 Location: Cheshire Posts: 3790  
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Probable worth buying one just to sell for a profit in the first month of launch. (if you can get one)
They will be popular but like most cars like this will never see an off road track. I guess I don't really understand why its needed. JLR prices are moving up and up. Years ago with the freelander it was an affordable car. I guess they don't want the family market now or at least they only want those with high disposable incomes. Now with most people buying 'normal' cars on what it costs per month the cost price doesn't matter. Not sure who would choose one, its a lot of money and yet still seems on the whole the same inside of a 90 3door at ยฃ50K |
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30th Jan 2025 3:43pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 785
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Hoping this doesn't come across insulting, but I think that maybe a very "American" view of the brand. The traditional Defender was available here right up until 2016.... and was very much still a work vehicle and priced as such. On the farm my Uncle bought a new pickup 90 in 2012 for ยฃ17k and in 2016 a new 90 hard top for something like ยฃ24-26k. To give this some perspective, these sorts of prices would be a similar cost to a middle range Ford Focus or top spec Ford Fiesta. In the USA I think you'd call such cars "economy" cars. Making the Defender still very affordable and very attainable at this time. And by no means a luxury model or priced as such. But there was still a good many being used as we drove across Wales. Last Friday my brother and I drove an 11 hour/440 mile round trip to south Wales in ironically the 2016 hard top. It was nice to see that there where still lots of Defenders being used on the farms in Wales. Numbers drop each and every year, because Land Rover have nothing for them to replace their vehicles with, so gradually they are all ending up in Japanese style pickup trucks from Toyota, Nissan and Ford Europe. Most of these "farm/working" Land Rovers are either hard tops or more frequently pick ups with an Ifor Williams top on, like this:  Click image to enlarge Many are beat up, as they are full time work vehicles and it rains a lot of the time in Wales, so being caked in mud is an every day occurrence, even in the summer. Vehicles may also be used to open and close gates and generally be abused. They couldn't be further from a luxury vehicle. Many hill farmers also only farm small farms with a somewhat limited income. Remember, these vehicles were still on sale here only 9 years ago and there are hundreds or thousands of them doing daily duty here still in 2025. The new Defender, as good as it is, just isn't a replacement for these vehicles. Likewise, in 1989 when the Discovery was launched it was a very affordable family vehicle rather than a luxury premium vehicle. Which is why it literally defined/redefined the market segment. Especially in the UK, Europe and non American markets. It caused many of the Japanese car makers to up their game or introduce new models to compete with the Discovery, which was a complete sales success. Again, not a luxury vehicle. They even sold a commercial version. Which was really just a 4x4 van. Nothing like the current Defender commercial. Click image to enlarge It is true, that they did keep pushing the Range Rover up market and in the mid 1990s with the introduction of the p38 it did make a bigger jump. But at that time the Freelander (another vehicle segment they have no presence in these days, Discovery Sport is WAY more expensive), Discovery (even Disco 2) and Defender were all quite affordable. the OCTA really spits in the face of all the vehicles that made the "Land Rover" brand great and a large percentage of the people who used to have Land Rover vehicles. With JLR effectively saying, you were our customers, but you just aren't rich enough for us now. So we care not, we are going to buddy up to the new rich set/nouveau riche as they have money to waste and we want it. The Disco 3 and 4 did take a bit of a jump up market too, but they both offered huge practicality that was completely lost with the shape of the D5 and even the new Defender. so practical vehicles, even expensive ones are now also missing from the line up. What has happened in the past 10 years, is all of the affordable models have vanished. Leaving mostly only expensive fashion items left for those with lots of money. Of course, if you have lots of money this might not be an issue. But in the grand scheme of things, there are a lot more people who don't have lots of money, than those that do. Therefore I would say claiming this has been the case since the 1980s is hugely wrong and misleading and is very much a modern thing from JLR, while they have also been killing off and strangling the Jaguar brand into the utter joke it has become in the past 6 months. Which is also a crying shame as I grew up on Jags and Land Rovers. Going back to the Defenders I cited above. 2012 pick up 90 for ยฃ17k.... using the Bank of England inflation calculator it means today in 2025 the same vehicle should cost ยฃ24k. Yet looking at the Land Rover website, the cheapest vehicle is a Discovery Sport at ยฃ43k starting price!
There is also another USA/UK difference here IMO While ยฃ1 in the UK might well buy something similar to $1 in the USA. People in the USA tend to end up with more money more easily than those in the UK. For instance, my role would probably pay double the numbers of what I earn here in the UK, maybe even 3 times (hope that makes sense, not converting from one currency, just the numbers, i.e. 10 here would be between 20-30 in the USA sort of thing). But what it means is, buying a 150k vehicle (regardless of currency, i.e. be it ยฃ150k or $150k). If I lived and worked in N. America doing the same job I do here, I could far more easily afford an expensive vehicle than I can living and working here. JLR will know this. And I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of JLR employees in the UK are not able to afford a new JLR vehicle on their salaries. In fact, I imagine (and this is a guess), that even those employees who get company cars might well not be allowed JLR products as they are also too expensive. This simply wouldn't have been the case back in the day.
Making very few and managing to sell them isn't really the same thing as a model that truly sells well. Don't me wrong, it may well be lucrative, as essentially the OCTA likely costs hardly anything more to build than a regular model, but has a much bigger profit margin. But still..... |
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30th Jan 2025 5:15pm |
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| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 1199 
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I have been told the 'Edition One' will make 1,500 units.
Looks as though LR are following the business model of the New Defender. |
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30th Jan 2025 6:11pm |
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| H1Tad Member Since: 20 Jul 2024 Location: Maine Posts: 141 
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Just for comparison - the Octa's market competition - the G-wagon AMG and BMW XM, are much more expensive. Indeed if you look at price for performance, the Octa looks pretty good. I don't know if JLR made the interior "special enough" for the price point over a V8 Defender but its definitely got the mechanical advantage.
You could argue that the Bronco Raptor is also a competitor but its a plastic-encapsulated pain box with an engine that likes to explode. Even then - they want $100k USD for them. 2022 Defender 110 SE P400 Tasman Blue Expedition and Cold weather package 2003 Hummer H1 P400 Firehouse Red 2008 Toyota FJ Cruiser |
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30th Jan 2025 6:59pm |
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| Munchie Member Since: 30 Oct 2024 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 30
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The good news is that these Halo cars are being bought, it makes the brand more desirable and therefore should improve the cars depreciation. The G class AMG full fat is around 180k now.
It says something that itโs more commercially viable to buy a brand new Defender than one thatโs a few years old, the used market has held up very well for these cars, so whatever Landrover are doing is working. |
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30th Jan 2025 7:59pm |
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| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5054 
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Itโs cool
Once things for sure, all cars are expensiveโฆcrazy so As for taking them off road, I do because I have a farm, but no one itโs allowed to take them off roading between lanes closing and not many sites with more intolerant people the uk doesnโt really allow fun any more and certainly not opportunities to get the wheels dirty Mike |
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31st Jan 2025 12:19am |
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| MercianRover Member Since: 07 Apr 2022 Location: Culworth Posts: 144 
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There are plenty of green lanes to use, at least two day's worth in my home county alone.
Problem is that the "Defender" is too heavy and large for most of them. |
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31st Jan 2025 9:56am |
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| Likeomg Member Since: 29 Jun 2012 Location: Lake District / Newcastle Posts: 2654 
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I'm in the process of purchasing a Bronco raptor, had initially planned a June purchase but theres 15-20k to be had off them at the moment.
Partner refuses to drive a pickup in the USA so a bronco was a good compromise... I wanted a F150 raptor / Raptor R I don't see how LR can charge about 60k more than a raptor R. People are actually using the raptors off-road in the USA, and I intend to do so with mine. Edit, the 2024 bronco Raptor with delivery miles im possibly about to purchase is circa 60K GBP, that's with carbon interior, Beadlock ready wheels and a few other upgrades So a Octa is 100k more.... |
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31st Jan 2025 10:53am |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 785
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I agree, having fun, motorsport and off roading are all typically shunned in the UK and not seen as being PC. But there are still plenty of lanes and off road to be had, just not the wide open easy access areas you get in places like N America or Australia. However, the OCTA or even just the new Defender are very large with lots of vulnerable bodywork and not really suited to most green lanes and a Pay N Play off road site would likely ruin one. Also not suitable for any sort of RTV competition really due to their size and risk of damage. Click image to enlarge |
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31st Jan 2025 12:10pm |
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| stevemfr Member Since: 18 Sep 2022 Location: Strasbpurg Posts: 145 
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The big problem with off-roading anywhere in Europe is population density. It's not just the availability of land / tracks where people can off-road without disturbing others but also the number of people interested in off-roading per square mile/km/whatever. You end up not with 1 or 2 cars on a track per week, but 5 or 10 per hour on a weekend or holiday. And anyone who remains even mildly objective can not argue that this does not matter.
I love the Bronco and will likely add one to the stable, but you really can't compare the Bronco with a Defender on most levels. The Defender is a better, more refined vehicle. And it costs more. And the Octa is the extreme version of that. I can definitely appreciate the fact that it's not worth an additional 100k to you - I am not running out to order one either and there are a million things I'd do with with 160k before ordering an Octa. But it's not a 1 to 1 with the Bronco Raptor... That said, one of the things I adore about the Bronco is the flexibility that Ford built into the body. From completely open to completely closed, everything is possible. Just like the old Defender. If I'd had anything to say in the L663's development, it would have ended up similar to the Bronco in this regard. But I didn't and it ain't. 
RRC 2Dr, RRC 4Dr, P38, and 2 L322s, 2 FL1s and a L663 on the way |
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31st Jan 2025 1:32pm |
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| Crazymind Member Since: 11 Jun 2024 Location: Glasgow Posts: 205
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Bronco? Itโs 40k more expensive than it should be.
Ford took a good lesson from Chinese auto makers. It looks terrific. This is it. Any corner of this product is cheap. From paint work to interior to seats to ride quality. The Defender is very well Engineered product. I was going to buy one LHD, after 5 minutes driving it, it does reveal for what is it. |
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31st Jan 2025 5:15pm |
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| Likeomg Member Since: 29 Jun 2012 Location: Lake District / Newcastle Posts: 2654
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To be honest, I've kept my previous gen defender (which will remain in the UK for now), sold the L405 autobiography for the Bronco and other than more road noise, I prefer every aspect of the Bronco to a L405. I haven't spent a huge amount of time in the new defender but I wouldn't say a L405 is much more refined if at all than a bronco raptor... |
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1st Feb 2025 2:39pm |
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| Likeomg Member Since: 29 Jun 2012 Location: Lake District / Newcastle Posts: 2654
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ยฃ65k for a v6 450hp, 10 speed with all the new modern info, big fox dampers carbon interior etc... I don't think it's badly priced at all? the on road and off-road performance is really good. yes it wouldn't work in the UK as its too wide but I'm purchasing it for use in central PA. |
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1st Feb 2025 2:42pm |
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| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2917
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l don't think that being too wide for green lanes will be an issue for 90% of new Defender buyers. l doubt most would actually know what a "green lane" is. But yes you're right, l have a new Defender 90 Commercial and it's too wide for some of the farm tracks l have to negotiate, at least without damaging the paintwork. Fortunately l also have a 2020 Jimny, which is absolutely ideal for green lanes and tracks, as the old Defender was. |
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1st Feb 2025 4:20pm |
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