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bodstruck



Member Since: 09 May 2020
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 922

United Kingdom 
Front Axle Upgrade Options
I have a 10 spline diff on the front of my 110 (1991 200tdi, but nothing else is original so no reason this should be). Narrow radius arms (cranked an with good bushes), vented disks and larger calipers.

The pinion bearing needs replacing. It is tightened up a little to remove some of the play but the bearing is rough as anything while turning.
There is also a fair bit of play between the wheels and the prop. You can turn the wheel a fair bit before the prop starts to tun so either drive flanges or shafts (or both) are worn.

What are thoughts on options for upgrading? I could replace like for like but I think I would like to do away with the 2 pin, 10 spline diff and now seems like a good time to do it.

Can I keep the axle case, swivels, brakes etc and just fit 24 spline internals? Or would I need to consider stub axles and/or any other parts?

I was considering also potentially an ATB or LSD. The car is probably used 50/50 on and off road. I am not sure I need one but if I am spending on the axle it could be worth considering now rather than later.

Thoughts and advice would be welcome. Thank you.
Post #1051266 10th Nov 2024 7:27pm
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MarkBrown



Member Since: 03 Oct 2022
Location: Mid Wales
Posts: 475

Wales 1983 Defender 110 Other HT Auto Keswick Green
Mines the standard axle, with the wide drive flanges from ‘83. I’ve fitted a discovery 24 spline diff along with Ashcroft 24/23 spline half shafts. Apparently I’ve got the strongest standard cv joints with that set up, but I still managed to break one. I can’t fit vented discs though. I think the radius arms are the smallest ( standard) type. This is probably a bit different to yours I expect, but the principle will be the same or similar. 1983 110 automatic OM606
Post #1051274 10th Nov 2024 8:54pm
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8059

 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
Yes you can fit 24 spline diff which will give you stronger shafts going 24 spline. You can go 4 pin too or something special as you suggest.

An lsd I believe would be better in the rear if one of your diffs is open. If you have open rear 24 spline, chuck that in the front with new shafts/cvs and put your 24 spline lds in rear.

Of already locker etc in rear then lsd front.

If you want strongest front I would go ashcroft locker, shafts and cvs.

Case, swivels, brakes stay the same Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop
Post #1051279 10th Nov 2024 9:48pm
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bodstruck



Member Since: 09 May 2020
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 922

United Kingdom 
Thanks both, that is helpful.

I have a Salisbury with disks at the rear so I think unlikely to be making changes to that anytime soon.

Perhaps I am better off just upgrading to 24 spline diff and shafts at the front. Just seen the price of the Ashcroft CVs. Glad I was sitting down Shocked
Post #1051281 10th Nov 2024 10:10pm
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I Like Old Skool



Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Manchester
Posts: 814

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi ST Coniston Green
Hey Bodstruck....

I had a 1991 200tdi 90 and used to beat it pretty hard on pay & play and a few winch comps/trialling etc.

On the back I went with a 300tdi disc brake axle (was told it was from a defender but could have been off a disco?) and fitted a 24 spline 4pin diff from an early military 90 with the stock 300 TDI single piece shafts which seemed to be unbreakable.

On the front I snapped the short shaft at the CV joint when laning in mid-wales, cue a frantic search of local garages on a Saturday morning before Wales closed for the weekend. Managed to secure the shafts and CV joints from an earlier 90 for what seems like a stupidly cheap price by today's standards (can't remember, but something like £100 for both sides if I removed them myself and this would be around the year 98/99). Straight swap into the 200tdi axle but gets you the stronger CV joints (off the top off my head, AEU2522. I am a sad fecker!). I then later fitted Ashcroft strong shafts with a standard 24 spline diff and never broke anything again.....
Post #1051285 10th Nov 2024 11:24pm
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I Like Old Skool



Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Manchester
Posts: 814

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi ST Coniston Green
Yep, sad I am. Just googled that part number and I am right. I need to get out more Laughing
Post #1051286 10th Nov 2024 11:27pm
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8059

 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
That's one part number I will always remember too!

Keep Salisbury rear as is, it's strong.

Plenty of easy options for front depending on use and tyres siE along with what you wish to spend will give you choices. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop
Post #1051299 11th Nov 2024 8:30am
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I Like Old Skool



Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Manchester
Posts: 814

United Kingdom 1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi ST Coniston Green
Salisbury rear axle is strong, but maybe not indestructible?

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic90925.html

I didn't snap it, but must have been closed?
Post #1051303 11th Nov 2024 9:45am
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bodstruck



Member Since: 09 May 2020
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 922

United Kingdom 
My hand is being forced this weekend. Front diff is now pretty much unusable and from the sound and feel of it, about to dismantle itself anytime soon.

Secondhand 24 spline diff in hand for now. New shafts, CVs and drive flanges next on my list. There seems to be a few options and combinations and I don't want to get the wrong kit as I don't have much time to get the car back on the road.

I like the completeness of these kits for the job in hand: https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/da6059-c...4-56.html. Am I correct in assuming these will fit in the hubs?

What about half-shafts to suit? I can't quite tell from the description but I am assuming (again, dangerous I know) that the CVs will be 23 spline internal so I need 24 spline diff end and 23 spline CV end half shafts.

TDC000020 and TDC000030
or
RTC5842 and RTC5842G

Thanks all Thumbs Up
Post #1054380 10th Dec 2024 9:12pm
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John P



Member Since: 26 Dec 2013
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 322

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey
This might be overkill for you, but I have recently rebuilt both front and rear axles.

Front diff has uprated crown wheel and pinion, with reverse cut. Ashcroft locker, and pegged.

Click image to enlarge

Fitted Ashcroft 300m halfshafts and CV's. 24 spline at the diff and 23 spline at the CV, and Ashcroft CV's. 859 drive flanges.

Rear diff

Click image to enlarge
Post #1054415 11th Dec 2024 11:18am
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bodstruck



Member Since: 09 May 2020
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 922

United Kingdom 
That is some setup. I am jealous. I would say not overkill for me but certainly overkill for my wallet Smile
Post #1054418 11th Dec 2024 11:29am
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John P



Member Since: 26 Dec 2013
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 322

United Kingdom 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 SW Corris Grey
Slightly off topic, but my rebuilt transfer case has just arrived with 300m output shaft Ashcroft ATB etc.... Wink

Click image to enlarge


Click image to enlarge
Post #1054420 11th Dec 2024 12:00pm
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Chicken Drumstick



Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 752

United Kingdom 
bodstruck wrote:
That is some setup. I am jealous. I would say not overkill for me but certainly overkill for my wallet Smile

It is some setup, but unless you are doing very heavy off roading, running 35" mud terrains or lots of on road drag racing with in excess of 300bhp, it is all probably way overkill and just somewhere to spend money....
Post #1054423 11th Dec 2024 12:18pm
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Chicken Drumstick



Member Since: 17 Aug 2020
Location: Near MK
Posts: 752

United Kingdom 
Re: Front Axle Upgrade Options
bodstruck wrote:
I have a 10 spline diff on the front of my 110 (1991 200tdi, but nothing else is original so no reason this should be). Narrow radius arms (cranked an with good bushes), vented disks and larger calipers.

The pinion bearing needs replacing. It is tightened up a little to remove some of the play but the bearing is rough as anything while turning.
There is also a fair bit of play between the wheels and the prop. You can turn the wheel a fair bit before the prop starts to tun so either drive flanges or shafts (or both) are worn.

What are thoughts on options for upgrading? I could replace like for like but I think I would like to do away with the 2 pin, 10 spline diff and now seems like a good time to do it.

Can I keep the axle case, swivels, brakes etc and just fit 24 spline internals? Or would I need to consider stub axles and/or any other parts?

I was considering also potentially an ATB or LSD. The car is probably used 50/50 on and off road. I am not sure I need one but if I am spending on the axle it could be worth considering now rather than later.

Thoughts and advice would be welcome. Thank you.


Firstly an ATB is an LSD... Smile

Really depends what you use the vehicle for and your entire setup. Plus what your end goals are.

You say you have cranked radius arms?? Do you mean caster corrected rather than cranked? Are you running a lift? And what sort of bushes.

Generally the front suspension has very limited travel and it isn't the shock that limits the travel. If you have caster corrected arms, they tend to make the pinion angle worse on the prop.

And there will always be some slack in the drivetrain, yours might be excess, hard to tell from a forum post. But doesn't sound all that different to what you'd find on most vehicles.

As for axle upgrades. Do you need a stronger axle? Have you broken a standard one? What size tyres and what type of off roading are you doing?

You can switch to 24 spline shafts, but you'll need some extra bits. This would only make sense if you changing the diff centre. But as you've probably seen, it ain't cheap.

A 4 pin centre will be stronger and provide the same performance. stock 24 spline vs 10 spline shafts are close enough strength wise, that it is not really an upgrade. Ashcroft shafts obviously a lot stronger. But again you'll pay to get them.

It might be worth pricing up getting a latter axle, but remember you may need to think about brakes and arms too.

ATB is a brilliant upgrade for enhanced ability.


Last edited by Chicken Drumstick on 11th Dec 2024 4:37pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #1054425 11th Dec 2024 12:27pm
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bodstruck



Member Since: 09 May 2020
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 922

United Kingdom 
Thanks for the notes.

I do need to do work on the diff centre anyway, the pinion bearing is shot. Play at the wheels is, I would say, excessive, about 20 degrees of rotation before the prop starts to turn. Only a small amount of that is play at the drive flanges. None of the seals seem to keep the fluids in the right place so they need replacing as well.

I could just get a replacement 10 spline diff and replace all the seals, gaskets and fluids. But the consensus seems to be that 24 spline is stronger so I may as well use this opportunity to change. I'd rather not change the whole axle, hence the aim of changing the internals.

At this point I need to make sure I get the right parts and then get it fixed so I can take it on my planned trip in a couple of weeks time.
Post #1054442 11th Dec 2024 2:43pm
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