 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Air intake findings.. |
 
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515  
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I know I've posted bits on various threads on this subject , after upgrading my intake system with an alisport system..
But I'll put it all together in one thread in case it's of interest to anyone thinking of going down this route.. It's the 2.2tdci and it's running a 150 map.. no dpf..an upgraded intercooler and a large (3inch) bore exhaust with a small cntr box..so I figured there was only the intake side left to improve engine breathing.. I fitted a safari raised intake to the standard intake system and my gauge showed a maf figure of 16gms/sec on tick over.. I'll use my tick over figures as that at least is always comparing like with like.. After fitting the alisport upgrade that figure dropped to about 13.5 gms/s.. My ali sport kit was the air box with the intake hose of 78/79 mm entering along the standard ducting path.. not over the wing top.. I fitted the ITG cleanable foam filter to the air box and the maf figure at tick over rose to about 14.5g/s.. I tried disconnecting the air box intake hose to rule out the raised air intake and inlet ducting giving the reduced flow from standard , but with no noticeable difference to the maf figure.. I fitted a centrifugal air pre cleaner to the raised air intake and again surprisingly no real change to the maf figure at tick over..still hovered around 14.5g/s... So today for curiosity's sake I refitted the standard air box and filter.. I did remove the water separator from the air box as I have a pre cleaner fitted.. but no cutting or modifying the box.. Had it for a drive and the maf figure is noticeably improved..it's back to the 16g/s I started with.. in fact a bit better .. On a drive the volumetric eff figure is way better as well , into the 90 odd % instead of the high 80's before.. So I'm sort of concluding that the standard air box is in fact as good as it gets.. improving the ducting into that helps a bit but I'm not sure if I can be bothered or even if it will make a difference increasing the diameter of the air intake hose from wing to air box from what I have now I'll run it for a while and see but looks like I may have an Ali sport air box for sale lol.. it looks the part mindπ It's worth saying that I never really noticed any big improvements in performance throughout all this playing around, but my truck runs well atm anyway..  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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11th Sep 2024 11:58am |
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| piechipsandpeas Member Since: 12 May 2021 Location: Albany, Western Australia Posts: 209  
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There's an Allisport video in this thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic89374.html detailing the new airbox. Towards the end they show this graph which compares the new airbox performance against the standard LR one. As can be seen at low revs there is little to no difference, which is what you seem to have shown too. It is only at the higher rev range where the new airbox and larger piping comes into its own as the original more restricted pipework and airbox reaches its maximum capacity, whilst the Allisport version copes a lot better.
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11th Sep 2024 2:18pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515
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""As can be seen at low revs there is little to no difference, which is what you seem to have shown too.""
Is that the way you see it..?? I thought I'd demonstrated that after fitting the upgrade the air flow actually dropped..and I used the tick over and low engine load data to show that.. From 16gms/s to 13.5gms/s.. That's somewhere in the region of a 15 to 16% reduction in mass air flow at low load.. And the way I view it is a reduction in air flow at that low rate will only increase as the velocity of the fluid increases.. When driving the volumetric efficiency figures are significantly higher now with the standard air box back in.. I did post somewhere a while ago that scope readings on the maf sensor supported the actual mass flow readings , but they are in frequency(Hz) and not so easily grasped.. That's how I see things anyway.. Ie a restriction at low revs is only going to have a larger effect at higher flow rates.. and the standard air box is in fact more efficient that the alloy one.. |
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11th Sep 2024 3:26pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515
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Lol...
I've been down that road but more to check the maf figures I was getting via torque..I posted about it here at the time as well..and they pretty well stacked up and verified what I was looking at.. You have to make a few assumptions one been the volumetric eff you reckon the engine is operating under.. But torque actually calculates and displays that figure , which I wasn't aware of at the time, I've since added it to the display I use as shown in the screenshot above.. Edit... my idle speed is always 800 rpm And on the throttle body... mine is always open..but even in an operating diesel I believe they are only ever active to help the egr system when it's active ..ie to create a slight depression to aid the flow of exhaust gas into the manifold.. The only other use as far as I know is to assist in a good shut down when you turn the ignition off.. |
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11th Sep 2024 3:54pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515
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The last little mod that I've tried is to fit a itg foam filter into the standard air box..when I put one in the ali sport box it did improve things a little from the initial decrease..(about 1g/s if I remember correctly.)
Well this time I've not noticed any noticeable change to the maf figures.. But they are no worse..π.. For time being I'm happy with what I have and will run with that..π |
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17th Sep 2024 6:26am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8027  
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ah, this is the post you were referring to when answering a question of mine. found it now. Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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17th Sep 2024 10:01am |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515
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It is..yes..sorry I should have linked to it, but I'd posted on a number of threads over a few months, and just wanted to put it all together briefly in case there was interest or folk were contemplating that sort of work..
I'm done with it for now.. the truck is running well and I'm happy the engine is breathing as well as it can in its present trim.. I went into a car park and did a little run from standstill and tried to video the torque screen.. I should really get one of the grandchildren to do a proper one whilst i drive..π€£ you can see the volumetric efficiency is very good as you accelerate away and at idle it's around the 16.5 to 17g/s (at close enough to atmospheric ) which again from calculations is good in my view.. https://youtube.com/shorts/wNvJOUi-nZU?si=Dy3wz3n07LB2BYeu |
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17th Sep 2024 11:50am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8027
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I am interested in buying it if you wish to sell. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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17th Sep 2024 7:42pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515
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Hi... still not sure myself whether I'll be playing with it some more.. but no time at the min .. so ill be keeping it till my mind is made up
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18th Sep 2024 6:19am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8027
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Ok,.no probs let me know if decide to move it on please. Cheers
James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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18th Sep 2024 7:02pm |
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