 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Black smoke but hear me out. |
 
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| koltonstanley Member Since: 06 Nov 2015 Location: new jersey Posts: 29   
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Hello,
I’ve read just about everything I could find about black smoke but can’t figure this out. Any ideas? 2009 defender puma 2.4 220,000 miles Been running an alive tuning remap with egr off for 10 plus years. Have never had any major issues. About 2 weeks ago I noticed a lot of black smoke and very sluggish throttle response and loss of power in lower rpm’s…… once I’m over apx 2,000 rpm’s things feel normal ish. Immediately I check air filter and it’s very very dirty, I blow it out with air compressor and immediately truck is back to normal. 2 or 3 engine cycles later it comes back. I replace air filter and no change. I clean map and maf sensor, no change. I run as many fuel additives and injector cleaners as I can through the truck and no change. I install new maf sensor. No change. I clean map sensor again and have new one on order. Now the weird part, a few days in and all of a sudden I start the truck and everything is back to normal…. Truck feels great! Last a few engine cycles and then reverts back to black smoke. Goes back and forth like this for days, sometimes fine and other times bad. I decide to change vcv valve…… no change. I feel like after the truck sits overnight the first start up of the day is the worst just until I clear it out….. almost like it’s flooded and after I get it up to high rpm’s goes back to just normal bad…. I’ve got a cheap ob2 sensor and I have no faults other then egr system which is turned off. What’s next!? I’m in USA so almost no shops around that I know of that can help me….. Is it possible there is something wrong with egr/stuck open even though the remap has it turned off? |
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8th Sep 2024 8:47pm |
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| BrickBox Member Since: 05 Oct 2021 Location: Wales Posts: 829  
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What intercooler are you running?
You could have a small crack/split in the intercooler. 2008 2.4 110 Utility Station Wagon XS. |
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8th Sep 2024 9:28pm |
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| koltonstanley Member Since: 06 Nov 2015 Location: new jersey Posts: 29
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I do also have an uprated intercooler by alive but again it’s been over 10 years, I haven’t really looked at Intercooler yet….. will try to look that over tomorrow.
Last edited by koltonstanley on 9th Sep 2024 12:20am. Edited 1 time in total |
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9th Sep 2024 12:06am |
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| koltonstanley Member Since: 06 Nov 2015 Location: new jersey Posts: 29
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Lots of good suggestions, I haven’t looked at the turbo at all. I don’t know anything about getting to the linkage, is it easily accessible? Will also check wiring closely, that would explain the intermittent part if it was just loose or worn wiring….. |
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9th Sep 2024 12:16am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20413 
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Yes, you can get at it easily if you look on here for info about the Turbo EA using the search function above you’ll find info on here about how you can check the linkage is free and the turbo vanes have free movement, it’s not invasive to do. Just requiring the top circlip to be removed (careful not to lose it). With the engine off, and manually operate the linkage to check the vanes are free, it should be free all the way to its downward travel. With no obstruction, then reconnect it.
(All of this is with the engine and ignition off throughout). Lube the two pivots on the linkage with a light oil like 3 in 1 oil. Also worth checking things like Brickbox mentioned, and for any signs of problems around the Intercooler etc and pipework. Check for cracks or any leaks around the map manifold and engine inlet manifold, turbo and exhaust header etc whilst there, you can normally tell if there is anything. Do you know how old the coolant is? $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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9th Sep 2024 12:46pm |
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| koltonstanley Member Since: 06 Nov 2015 Location: new jersey Posts: 29
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 Click image to enlarge Ok so I took the turbo linkage apart and it seams fine…. Moves easily all the way….. I did drop that clip about 3 times and spent an hour looking for it 🤦🏻♂️. Anyway if course I’ve got over 200,000 miles so everything has a good coating of oil, grease etc so it’s hard to tell if there is any new leaks….. haha but I don’t see anything. Intercooler looks fine 🤷🏻♂️. So I got the new map sensor today and I pulled out the old one and it was totally caked full of who knows what…. Like somebody put black peanut butter on it…… and this is a sensor I cleaned only 2 or 3 days ago! What in the world would cause so much build up that fast? See picture. |
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10th Sep 2024 12:40am |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 521
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Hard to believe that's ever been cleaned lol..
Normally that's an operating egr valve that would cause that sort of carbon build up but you say yours is disabled..the inlet manifold side will need removing and cleaning out.. Fitting a new map isn't likely to help on it's own..the passage to the map port is small and easily blocked..I covered a bit on that in this thread. https://www.defender2.net/forum/post1039364.html#1039364 Your engine needs a bit tlc I think.. 👍.. |
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10th Sep 2024 5:52am |
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| hank Member Since: 12 Sep 2016 Location: South Wales Posts: 2301 
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I would guess that your injector seals have gone, leading to excessive blow by and increased crankcase pressure which is ventilating via the positive crankcase ventilation system and in doing so blowing oily air into the your inlet pipework > 110 XS Double Cab
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10th Sep 2024 7:09am |
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| koltonstanley Member Since: 06 Nov 2015 Location: new jersey Posts: 29
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So most likely injectors need to be pulled and replaced with new copper washers, and inlet manifold taken apart and cleaned.
Anything else I should prepare for? In the USA I gotta pretty much order everything I need before I start. |
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10th Sep 2024 11:22am |
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| koltonstanley Member Since: 06 Nov 2015 Location: new jersey Posts: 29
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has anyone ever had an EGR valve cause an issue like this even with it turned off?
Is it possible that it got stuck open, even a little? i recently had the battery disconnected for a few days, is it possible the egr opened and then couldnt fully close? When your EGR is turned off via ECU does it just stay closed 100 percent of the time or does it still open for any reason? Should i just replace the EGR regardless just to be sure......again truck does have 375,000 KM! thanks |
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10th Sep 2024 1:59pm |
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| BrickBox Member Since: 05 Oct 2021 Location: Wales Posts: 829
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Just put a blank plate on the EGR if you want to make sure it’s fully closed I guess. 2008 2.4 110 Utility Station Wagon XS.
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10th Sep 2024 2:08pm |
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| koltonstanley Member Since: 06 Nov 2015 Location: new jersey Posts: 29
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i know im probably getting ahead of myself but would it be a bad idea to flash the original map back onto the ECU and let the truck perform the self cleaning egr duties it normally would?
Or should i try whacking the egr with a hammer to see if anyththing changes......haha |
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10th Sep 2024 2:13pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 521
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The egr valve could be leaking I suppose..just because it is electronically decommissioned and not operating doesnt mean it might not be passing some exhaust..but thinking about it , you would think that would cause loss of boost pressure and flag a fault ..so unlikely I would think..
On mine if you view the data on a scan tool I think it reads a small percentage actuation but that never changes indicating it is doing nothing and at that percentage it is in fact closed....it's not difficult to insert a blanking plate at the valve outlet anyway when you have it in bits When I said your issue of carbon build up was due to the egr valve I mean it's the exhaust gases that help form the tar and hard carbon deposits of the oil that is been carried over to the inlet .. Was it ever cleaned at the time it was mapped out..if not it could have been like that for a long time and the excessive oil carry over has just helped form a large tary mass in your intake.. |
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10th Sep 2024 2:17pm |
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| koltonstanley Member Since: 06 Nov 2015 Location: new jersey Posts: 29
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no it was never cleaned prior to rempap.....
however truck had only done probably 10,000 miles or so before i had it done. its weird to me that the truck starts right up and idles nice and smooth....no stalling no signs of any issues..... even in 1st gear i cant tell anything is wrong......its just when i step on pedal in 3rd or 4th gear at low rpms feels like im in 5th or 6th gear but only in 2nd or 3rd.... once i get it up past 2000 rpms everything basically feels normal again..... today while on a highway even in 6th gear going up a hill it pulls hard like a train....... sigh... thanks for your help guys......think the next thing i will attempt is to remove egr valve and see what it looks like. thanks |
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10th Sep 2024 2:26pm |
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