 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Water temp raise with higher speed/6gear |
 
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| BrunoJ Member Since: 14 Sep 2019 Location: Stavanger Posts: 75   
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I found similar topic for TDi, but not for Puma.
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic39665...emperature Short story first. The gauge for temperature stays still. I use UltraGauge to read temperatures of oil and coolant. I had some issues with egr and MAF before, egr seems to be stuck closed, also egr cooler has been replaced at some point due to water leak. I run over highways few times a year, traveling between Norway and Europe. Typical coolant temperatures stays as 87-89, rarely uphill or very high speed (130 and above) I reached 92, 94 was a max I observed last years. Actually the egr cooler leak I observed as temperature “jumped” to 96-98. Recently I fixed MAF and EGR. From that moment I immediately see higher temperatures for both oil and water. 91-92 seems to be now the regular working temperature. And whatever higher speed on highway or uphill immediately raise it to 94-96. When kept longer, it raise to 98 and probably beyond. The dashboard gauge still do not move, so without UltraGauge I’ll probably not be aware about any temperature fluctuations. When I’m speeding down, I got very quickly “normal” temperatures. Also when I’m driving downhill I have impression in gets immediately lower (location of sensor can affect the reading?). Also, when I open the heating in the cabin, temperature goes down 1-2 degrees (not easy test summer time 
I observe if I run above 3000rpm, ideally 3,5k, temperature finally got lower. But running typically 110-120km/h on highway, 6gear gives 2,5k rpm, and it is much quiet in the car. 3,5k generate a lot of noise as well as fuel consumption. Not very comfortable for longer distances. I’m trying to understand if such temperatures are just ok. Or I should rather get slower and keep 5th gear and ~90C , and carefully allow to raise above that. As you can imagine, current outside temperatures doesn’t help to keep engine cooled. I’m currently in Italy (with my Def) , and 38C outside seems to be normal. However, I observed higher engine temperatures already in Norway, with 15C outside. So I tend to assume the outside temperatures are not main cause. Few details about the car - factory cooler, oil and water level correct. The front of car has a factory protector (gummy black “frame”) and two extra lamps, as well as winch - I guess they potentially can block a little bit the airflow to the (inter)cooler?. All factory setup of cooler, so no extra space or bigger aftermarket one. Air conditioning works on well, I cannot see any changes in temperature if I’m using it or not. Accessory belt replaces not far ago, all seems to be working well. Car has also pop-top tent built in. It raises the roof a bit, so potentially makes a little bit harder for engine to move whole box forward, comparing to standard setup. What I observed additionally - the catalyst sensor keeps temperatures of 350-400C , then above 600C when DPF runs cleaning cycle. In the past it was rather 250-300 (and no cleaning). Exhaust has been changed last year, both segments, catalyst and DPF stays original. Oil temperatures are between 110-120C, always above 100C (in the past 90-100C, exceptionally 110C). All those changes to higher temp are after fixing egr and MAF. I’m running the distances like 600-800km a day (but sometimes also 1000+), good roads/highways. There is one more factor which potentially I can see connected (?). I did rust protection last year and refresh it recently. I wonder if there are some heat protectors around the exhaust, like some alu/silver elements which could got painted black now and lost their function. Seems to be completely irrelevant but…. Just to have full story - car had engine replaced in the past (previous owner) due to overheat, after long highway run. I would definitely like to avoid that. From other hands. I’m just wonder that maybe the factory gauge is intentionally locked and does not show temp changes in details, as it is a normal behavior and no reason to scary the driver. Then I stress myself with UltraGauge reading without the reason. I read some posts on forum stating that 6gear doesn’t have enough power and temperature raises, and should be used carefully. I also read that factory gauge is not precise and doesn’t warn early enough if something happens with temperatures. I believe I should, in long term, consider to replace/upgrade cooler/intercooler, which could also go together with some (e.g.) BAS power upgrade (so rpm’s will be adjusted better to specific speeds). But maybe I should also check or preventionally replace the thermostat and/or water pump (?) Car is from 10.2012, German specs. Any comments, hints , suggestions more than welcome. I’m simply not sure is it more an academic discussion or some real issue I should start investigating. |
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2nd Aug 2024 10:47am |
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| rillas Member Since: 27 May 2012 Location: warilla nsw 2528 Posts: 16  
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What u is going threw I had same puma 130 2015 changed everything at the end pulled head of and that what is was head gasket should have did it before renewing everything lucky I did all the work myself cost only on parts labour no cost
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2nd Aug 2024 11:49am |
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2415  
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Apparently these engines are designed to run hot for a few reasons. You can find a threads here about the thermostat options, upgraded radiators, driving style, engine oil with higher HTHS, etc. Puma 110" SW
............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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2nd Aug 2024 11:52am |
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| swt Member Since: 24 Aug 2018 Location: Cumbria Posts: 163  
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My 2.4 Puma has always behaved much as ScotM describes, running in the low 90s as a matter of course, easily driven to 100C, or a few degrees beyond, under real load.
It's an obvious point, but if you're using coolant concentrate, increasing the dilution (within the manufacturer's recommended range, of course) can make a few degrees difference, ie. lower the running temperature. |
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2nd Aug 2024 12:58pm |
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| BrunoJ Member Since: 14 Sep 2019 Location: Stavanger Posts: 75
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Thanks for all replies. My main concern is due to fact I run this car last few years and temperatures were different, as I tried to describe. Solid rock 90C all the time. Only after I fixed all MAF/EGR stuff it changed visibly. Driving from north of Poland to Alps is basically constant up hill
. Let’s see ok the way back.
I have to consider using the car with -30C in Norwegian mountains as well. So kaybe early opening thermostat will work better (if not fitter already). I was wonder if UG (or the sensor itself) is too much sensitive for changes, but also maybe fan or airflow is not good enough at higher speed. I assume there is no air in the cooling flow, as it should automatically go away. Gasket has been verified as much as it could be without taking off the head, no symptoms visible (leaks, oil/coolant mixture). But who knows… As far as I understand - nothing odd yet, I have to observe and do not push too hard if not necessary. I’ll still try to investigate, and currently just enjoy holidays (and air conditioning;-). I’ll review other posts on forum as well. |
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2nd Aug 2024 1:21pm |
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| BrunoJ Member Since: 14 Sep 2019 Location: Stavanger Posts: 75
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Just to add into the topic - another 1300km done, from Italy to Poland. 94-96C with 130km/h. 8x-92 when lower load on the engine (downhill etc). Ambient temp 30+, when lowered to 22-25, I was able to keep 92-94C.
I review few posts on the forum , about temperatures and thermostat. However, I tend to agree with kind of conclusion - this car is not design for long highway runs with proper autobahn speed. |
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4th Aug 2024 9:36pm |
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| Scotm Member Since: 28 Feb 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 666  
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I I know this doesn't help your worries about your increased temperature but I would be happy with those type of temperatures.
A constant 90C as you had originally I would consider unusual. Land Rover put in a dash gauge in that only showed within range rather than accurate due to the expected fluctuating temperatures. Last edited by Scotm on 5th Aug 2024 12:43pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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5th Aug 2024 8:40am |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1052  
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I would agree, these temperatures are not a concern. Because the system is pressurised the temp can rise above 100 deg C and still be perfectly fine. It's when the cooling fails (no more fluid) you are in trouble.
Also at 130km/hr you are driving flat out as I recall this is actually the book max speed of the car. I lived in Norway for 8 years and recall every time we got of the ferry in Kiel it was such a blessing to be able to drive your car at more normal cruizing speeds, but for a Defender I think you are pushing it a little, also in terms of fuel economy etc. I would think 110 is more suitable. Radiators do degrade over time and slowly loose their ability to pass the fluid heat over to the air. I normally change the radiator every 10-15 years or so assuming they are readily available and easy to fit (like on the Defender). This will avoid the overheating scenarios in traffic in the south of France etc. |
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5th Aug 2024 9:17am |
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| BrunoJ Member Since: 14 Sep 2019 Location: Stavanger Posts: 75
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The book max for 2.2 is 145km/h. But yes, 130km/h seems to be on the edge of practical usage.
The point is that 110km/h means 5th gear with high rev, or 6th gear with very low rev. - then high temperatures are visible even more, as car has no power on 6th. I would prefer to go with 110-120, but it looks like I’m stretching the temperatures even more, which is quite unfortunate. Fuel economy ect is obvious. However sometimes the distance vs time is the factor. 1-2h longer drive means the requirement for overnight, as it exceed the drivers capability. About the stable temperatures, that would be rather expected behaviour. Having some experiences with petrol engines, they keep stable 90 and jump to 95 when hot. Second fan speed make a job, I didn’t have a car which has so big fluctuation of temperatures (but based on gauges, which moves on the scale, not like in Defender) I have this car 5th year now, but looks like I’m learning it from scratch, running „faulty” one earlier. Or - which is also possible - UltraGauge was confused due to incorrect electrical connection and shown incorrect values. Which was the case for egr and some other measures. Last edited by BrunoJ on 14th Aug 2024 1:20pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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5th Aug 2024 11:57am |
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| Polarismd Member Since: 13 Feb 2022 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 62
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Get the lower temperature thermostat. LR call it the "Hot Climate" thermostat. It opens faster and has a bigger throat. That solved all my problems. |
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14th Aug 2024 9:03am |
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