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Sylvan

Member Since: 28 Nov 2016
Location: North
Posts: 61

loss of clutch peddle pressure

Hi All
we'd loaded up the landy for a weekend camp, I'd only just pulled off and felt there was no resistance on the clutch peddle, I drove around for two mins before stopping and checking the master cylinder rest, and it was bone empty.
I topped it up with clutch oil, pumped the clutch peddle a few times and got the resistance back again.
used it for the weekend and situation still the same.
I had the master slave cylinder replaced last year, which makes me think it's not that, I did check area around where it attaches to Bulkhead, but didn't see any visible signs that it could be that, I also felt around the clutch peddle on the inside for liquid, also nothing.
so would I be correct in saying its the slave cylinder inside the gearbox?
I'd obviously have to change the clutch plate pressure plat bearing etc whilst if was off, I'd have to have a garage do this work for me as I'm not skilled enough to tackle this job.
I've personally just changed all 4 corners of the landys brake pads, break calipers break discs, and bleed them all, but my break peddle still has slack in it, and need a couple of tappy foot movements for it to become hard if you usderstand what I mean.
what's your thoughts on what do you think is up with an empty master cylinder, Should I just continue to use the car until something obviously breaks?
your help and advice is much appreciated

25th Jun 2024 5:08pm

Sylvan

Member Since: 28 Nov 2016
Location: North
Posts: 61

sorry, I'm saying master cylinder as the one inside the bonnet that attaches to the bulk head

25th Jun 2024 6:03pm

MK

Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2412

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Chawton White

Any leak under the bellhousing? There is a small "hole" between the gearbox flange and the engine surface. I guess any clutch fluid should be draining through that hole in the case the slave cylinder is gone. Maybe somebody will correct me if I am wrong. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

25th Jun 2024 6:15pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3410

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black

Indeed there is a small notch between the gearbox bellhousing and the engine.
If the slave (inside the gearbox bell housing) is leaking, the OP should see hydraulic fluid coming out of that notch.

If the master cylinder (just above the pedal inside engine bay) is leaking, hydraulic could leak inside the cabin, and go behind the bulkhead carpet/sound deadening.

Never assume it is not it because it was done 1 year ago. There is a wide range in quality of aftermarket parts. some worse than others. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

25th Jun 2024 7:00pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20299

If there isn’t any obvious external leaks. (There is possibility it’s internal).
However, it might be trapped air if the fluid is not present.
For now, yiu might be able to still use it by bleeding it, but the fact the fluid is gone is concerning and the slave is a possible culprit for that. ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️

25th Jun 2024 7:12pm

Sylvan

Member Since: 28 Nov 2016
Location: North
Posts: 61

Dinnu wrote:
Indeed there is a small notch between the gearbox bellhousing and the engine.
If the slave (inside the gearbox bell housing) is leaking, the OP should see hydraulic fluid coming out of that notch.

If the master cylinder (just above the pedal inside engine bay) is leaking, hydraulic could leak inside the cabin, and go behind the bulkhead carpet/sound deadening.

Never assume it is not it because it was done 1 year ago. There is a wide range in quality of aftermarket parts. some worse than others.

just checked this morning, pulled the sound deadening mat away and no real signs of a leek, I also got underneath and checked where you said bellhousing and could see where some fluid may have come out😭. how would a machanic no which one has gone if there was no evidence of oil leeking out of said areas? as I don't want to say to them it's the slave rather than the master as I'd be unsure which one it is
Thanks agian

26th Jun 2024 10:31am

Sylvan

Member Since: 28 Nov 2016
Location: North
Posts: 61

custom90 wrote:
If there isn’t any obvious external leaks. (There is possibility it’s internal).
However, it might be trapped air if the fluid is not present.
For now, yiu might be able to still use it by bleeding it, but the fact the fluid is gone is concerning and the slave is a possible culprit for that.

Thanks for reply. 👍

26th Jun 2024 10:32am

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20299

If you want to rule out the MC you can replace that, they normally have a long life though. Ten years at least is common/
But beyond that, and no signs of leaks it will be the slave. Unfortunately.

It has been known for a spring to come out the friction plate, in turn that can mess up the slave as it can’t engage concentrically and in other words applies its pressure skew wiff.
That then often causes the diaphragm to go, leak internally in a small amount.

Losing pressure, might be a diaphragm pinhole leak in the slave.
Possibly caused by a failed spring, possibly not.

These things tend to fail well before slipping of heavy friction plate wear occurs.

So I went for the later 2.2 Genuine slave on my 2.4 and associated fittings, and the Transit 4x4 clutch, which so far so good seems to handle power better.
Longevity we shall see, but it feels good I think slips less and has just the right feel.

I had the issues you have just a couple of years ago, I replaced the MC hoping it would sort it out and could do with replacing anyway due to age of it.

Didn’t solve it, in the end it was a spring that had came out, was in turn making the slave leak.
That then failed, causing sporadic failure to select a gear, and clutch dragging.
Then couldn’t be driven.

I would doubt the MC is at fault, I ch aged mine in case but had the incentive due to its age. ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️

26th Jun 2024 12:17pm

Sylvan

Member Since: 28 Nov 2016
Location: North
Posts: 61

Thanks, that great info.
I've been in touch with two local ish garages, one specialises in just gearbox and clutch repairs, and another 4x4 and both want to fit thier own pupllied parts, as I asked if they'd fit ones that I supply, as was looking at the LOF ones,
two prices 1st was 1360+vat the other specialised clutches garage was 750+vat for three parts clutch.

26th Jun 2024 2:00pm

MK

Member Since: 28 Aug 2008
Location: Santiago
Posts: 2412

I would first locate the problem and then move on finding a service willing to fit/provide the parts you want. I suggest you read this forum as there is plenty of good info. Puma 110" SW

.............................................................
Earth first. Other planets later

26th Jun 2024 2:07pm

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