 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Ali sport air intake.. |
 
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 531  
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So I finally got round to fitting the new air intake..
I have been running a standard ducting with a safari raised intake on the wing.. Its been like that for a nearly 2 years and I am fairly familiar with the intake figures and volumetric efficiency that are produced on the torque app with that set up.. Basically with the engine ticking over the air flow would be 16gms per sec.. The volimetric eff would be in the high eighties percentage, running about one pound of boost pressure at tick over.. Its early days and it's only covered 50/60 miles but straight away I notice the mass air flow rate is running at 13.5gms per sec with a volumetric eff of 70%.. Boost pressure again about 1psi at tick over.. Not what I expected to see, or I'm missing something.. The drive feels the same as it ever did.. Certainly not noticed any noticeable change..better or worse.. I have scope traces of my mass air flow under varying accelerator use of the old system and I'll get round to taking some of the new set up, but was just wondering if anyone else who has fitted an alisport system has any observations.. I'm sure I'll not be rushing to reinstall the old ducting and air box any time soon but initial figures show a marginally lower flow rate for similar conditions..all be it a bit un scientific |
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19th May 2024 3:52pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 531
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Hi Ian, thanks for that point.. I'm inclined to think not.. My standard ducting was well sealed at the time I put the snorkel on.. I used non setting mastic on the two joints.. Ie the wing push fit and again by the air box joint.. It was well sealed... I remember thinking at the time that was the whole point of putting the raised intake on.. I wanted to be able to take a dip knowing I wouldn't get water in..
I did leave the little mushroom drain plugs in place one at the wing end of the ducting and the other at the air box, as my yhinking was that water would shut them anyway.. At the minute I'm only talking about figures relating to tick over.. Not loaded or been revved.. |
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19th May 2024 6:40pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3310 
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My first thought was the same as Ian’s but to do a proper comparison you would need the same conditions, temperature, humidity etc. plus repeating exactly whatever the engine was doing at the time. I’m not sure where you are but it was quite hot down here today and that could affect results.That being said to get a ballpark I would record live values in the same conditions whilst driving the same route. First with everything attached. Secondly with the RAI removed and finally without the hose attached to the airbox and look at the results to see exactly what is causing the restriction. I’d then do the same the other way around just to be sure. No hose, hose, hose and RAI. Obviously the air would be hotter with nothing attached, in the past I have removed the bonnet which helps with that. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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19th May 2024 7:54pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 531
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Yes there would be a bit work involved in trying to establish why there is a lower air flow now compared to my observations before the change but it's definitely there by looking at the figures.. The first thing that drew my attention to it wasn't the way it was driving, it was the volumetric efficiency figure.. It was down at 70% and I know it normally sits at least mid 80's..and I then checked the mass air whick was down from 16g/s to 13.5g/s..in % terms that's about 15% which ties in with the volumetric efficiency figure above..(remember I'm only talking tick over) so that I can accurately compare the two situations..
You mention testing in similar conditions, ie temp and humidity.. Humidity only has a very small effect on the density of the air and as far as I know isn't taken into account.. The air charge temp is and regardless of the conditions the mass of air will always be kept within the requirments of the engine under whatever conditions it's operating under.. That's what the sensors do and the map dictates That would be borne out by the fact that regardless of conditions, hot or cold my mass air flow at tick over was always about 16g/s.. Those are my thoughts atm anyway.. As I said I'll do a bit more checking as time permits... 👍 |
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20th May 2024 7:42am |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3310
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I suppose you could just run at idle to test but it would be more interesting to get a full picture running at revs and also under load. If we assume the new airbox is more efficient than your old setup then presumably there must be a restriction. As I mentioned one way of isolating it would be to remove the parts in stages to see if it’s the RAI, hose or airbox causing the issue. I’m assuming you have already checked the obvious things; filter seated correctly, hoses attached and not kinked, nothing blocked etc. It would also be interesting to test with the paper filter against the ITG. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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20th May 2024 9:23am |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 531
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Cheers..
Yes if it was causing any driving issues I'd be more inclined to start stripping parts off etc, but I've made a fair job of attaching the snorkel and adapter with mastic etc so popping it on and off would be a messy chore.. The pipe from wing adapter to new air box isn't a 90, mm pipe.. As first advertised.. Its about 76 mm.. That's most probably what they were on about on the phone when I was enquiring about progress and the reason for that alloy reducer at the air box end that you previously commented on.. I haven't even back in to the air box to check anything , but the pipework isn't flattened or crushed.. I can see that ok.. I did say during the install the connection to the wing adapter is awkward and the pipe doesn't come off that quite as I'd like due to abs pipework.. But I'm confident the clip is secure and the pipe is on.. I've just had a quick look at what came off and the smallest csa of the original trunking next to the 76 mm pipe..  Click image to enlarge |
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20th May 2024 9:42am |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3310
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Ah, now the reducer makes sense. Do you think you could fit a 90mm in there or will the red booster get in the way? Mind you even a 76 should be an improvement on standard. I get that it won’t affect driving but if you’ve spent several hundred pounds on an airbox you want it to be an improvement. I’m sure Allisport would agree. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm. |
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20th May 2024 12:15pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 531
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I don't want to bore you all with my findings on the alisport air box and induction pipework, but I made a bit time today to run the scope on the new set up which I suspected from looking at reading on the torque app were actually marginally worse than the standard set up I had been running..
I had saved files of the maf sensor before and I did the standard test on it today.. Its basically a standard maf sensor test that consists of flooring the accelerator from tick over and releasing it.. The mass air flow in my case is recorded as a changing frequency.. The salient points been the frequency at tick over and the max achieved frequency, and the time to reach it.. Photos of two earlier traces and today's along with a log of the results definately confirms there is certainly no improvement in air flow and indeed is marginally worse, That's with the set up I'm running as described in my first post. A little disappointed, and I will ring alisport but I don't really know whether they will be interested in my findings🤔 Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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20th May 2024 3:23pm |
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| John P Member Since: 26 Dec 2013 Location: West Sussex Posts: 322 
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That's interesting, as mine arrived a few days ago, and the pipe supplied to go to the air box is 90mm ID. The intake at the air box takes this pipe snugly. |
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20th May 2024 3:45pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 531
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Yours air box will be the top entry with the pipe coming over the wing I suspect.. My air box inlet pipe takes the same route as the standard ducting...and is obviously smaller diam for some reason.. I'm not sure I could have accommodated a 90mmpipe at the wing adapter as the abs pipework and wing mounted aerial get in the way a bit
I already have a vacuum tank on the wing top to provide support to a brake and clutch servo, so went for the low entry box.. |
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20th May 2024 4:16pm |
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| John P Member Since: 26 Dec 2013 Location: West Sussex Posts: 322
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I was unaware that you could order different ones. Here is a photo of mine. The opening to the air filter is 90mm OD.
Click image to enlarge |
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21st May 2024 8:21am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8050  
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I have one, same as pic and used 90mm pipe to new wing grill.
I haven't done any scientific mass flow tests but I do knownitnpulls a higher gear coming off a roundabout from low revs than it used to on my daily route. I will also check lifetime mpgs but I believe its up. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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21st May 2024 5:18pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 531
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@Zed I got my reply from Ali sport.. And they have agreed they would not expect to see a reduction in airflow...marginal though it might be..
I fitted the foam ITG filter and there is an immediate though again small improvement in air flow.. That's on a first look just ticking over.. The maf rate has lifted from 13.5g/s to 15.... I have some 90mm air inlet hose and when I get round to it I think I'll fabricate my own wing adapter to take that.. The air box will take it as it is.. I reckon I can do something with the standard wing fitting and convert it to a 90mm diam outlet.. Will see.. 🤔 Click image to enlarge |
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24th May 2024 1:46pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3310
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I thought they’d be interested. Good to know the ITG actually does something for the extra cash!
Allisport and others do a 90mm wing adapter. It will be interesting to see the difference although it will be limited by your RAI. Definitely worth testing without it to see just how restrictive it is. If you want to test further I’d suggest using a magnehelic gauge instead of MAF readings. That way you can also test hose routing and each part individually. WARNING. This post may contain sarcasm. |
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24th May 2024 5:49pm |
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