 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Puma 2.2 Loss of power with Fault Codes |
 
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 521  
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Kev whatever you do don't take me for any sort of expert.. 👍🤣
Looking at your readings I'd say it looks like your acc pedal position sensors are working.. I have a sensor D and an E.. Which behave as I've described above . I've never had the pedal position off but another check I'd imagine would be to physically check the variable resistances of the two potentiometers with a meter.. I've forgotten how we got here but assume it was because your acc pedal unit might be defective.. I have the bells auto remote plug in unit that may give additional info on the accelerator pedal unit which I'll try tomorrow, and if it turns up anything I'll get back👍 |
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17th Apr 2024 5:51pm |
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| kevin-h Member Since: 24 Mar 2020 Location: Huddersfield Posts: 27 
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Cheers.
Thank you for your help |
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17th Apr 2024 6:26pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 521
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Just as a further update.. I had a look at the tpp data using the bell auto serv remote tool.. It simply lists it as sensor 1and sensor 2.. And each goes from zero to 100%..unlike the torque app which lists the % operation in a different manner..  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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19th Apr 2024 1:38pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20413
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Is it something you can test with a Multimeter? I’m not sure quite if that’s practical, or what readings you’d be looking for though without the specs.
The thing is, it maybe showing you the percentage of the depression of the pedal but is it outputting the correct signal? After all it’s the signal back to the ECM, that’s critical. For example, you may have a pedal depression perhaps say of 60% but that might be intermittent and drop to 30% by its self when it shouldn’t be doing that. That would drop the power by fooling then ECU into seeing a reduction of depression on the pedal, which in normal circumstances would be easing off of the accelerator. MAF, MAP and turbo EA all are commonly linked to key performance, and sometimes these things can cause phantom DTC’s elsewhere. For example EGR issues can some, times throw phantom MAF DTC. That being said, as you have a DTC for the throttle precisely on this I’d say that maybe the issue it’s self. And the fact you are seeing a discrepancy between the data that you are seeing I think is quite telling. It maybe that the signal is dropping, and that is showing as easing off the power which would give the impression of power loss. The VCV can sap a lot of power too, and that produces no DTC. Loss of power in 5th and 6th gear in my opinion is the most telling symptom of that and cutting out when it’s in its death throes. If you bought a new one, you’d be able to compare figures, take note and compare. No doubt an expensive part though.  $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
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19th Apr 2024 3:36pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 521
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I was wondering what an accelerator pedal unit would cost.. I was thinking it would be handy to have one on a long lead that could be plugged into the connector in place of the fitted one..
I've quite often wanted to control engine speed while messing around under the bonnet like I used to be able to do on my older motors🤔🙈 |
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19th Apr 2024 4:07pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20413
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https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...edal_45159
The other option would be, a take off part from a breaker. I expect you could do that, you’d need to find out what connector it is and then you’d need a male and female version of that. I doubt the wire would cost much as it’d only be signal sense no heavy load. I expect that LR have made some complication to that idea though… $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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19th Apr 2024 6:42pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17417 
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Remember also that on Puma Defenders the ECM will ignore the throttle input if (a) the vehicle is not moving and (b) the throttle setting is static since it assumes a TPS fault condition. It is for this reason that you can't spoof a throttle pedal if you want a hand throttle. You can use the pedal but you have to modulate it with your foot.
The genuine hand throttle includes a software change to permit constant speed static running. |
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19th Apr 2024 6:53pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20413
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Interesting BW, presumably that would be required if for example static PTO use was needed with a fixed of settable rpm? $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
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19th Apr 2024 7:03pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 521
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Just an idea atm..
I know it was possible to make up a resistance ladder module for the mk7 transit engine to have varying engine speeds selectable.. But I never made up the unit to try it🤔 Anyhow.. Thanks as always for the thoughts👍 |
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19th Apr 2024 7:48pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 521
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I had a little time on me hands ,and the accelerator pedal talk was still on me mind, so for my own benefit and future ref I had a look and took some readings at the pedal connector...
6 wire connector..each potentiometer has a ref voltage of 4.9v, the resistance of each as measured was 1... 1.89kohms-4.15kohms, and when connected that translated to a voltage output of0.75V-3.84V 2.. 2.0kohms- 4.35kohmsand a voltage output of 0.36V-1.78V not quite sure how the voltage outputs differ given the variable resistances are similar..must be something else in the ecu circuit on one of them.. the pedal mounting bolts have nuts on the bulkhead that are not captive and are in behind the wheel arch liner which is ok if there are a couple of you or you have arms as long as an orangutang  |
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20th Apr 2024 4:41pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 521
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I forgot the photos of the connector👍
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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20th Apr 2024 4:45pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20413
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I’d be careful with it, or it could do a lot of damage if you have an accidental voltage spike or full throttle response locked in.
You never know, but it’s best to be safe than sorry. Paul has that connector on his page here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161471327339?it...xyVLNSo0zP I don’t know if there is a corresponding stand alone socket that mates with it. You can use a LM2596HV for variable voltages with low load, you can set the voltage to a fixed voltage with one. They are quite stable. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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20th Apr 2024 5:07pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 521
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Thanks for that.. I would like the matching plug for that socket.. Just to be clear.. I'm not looking for a remote that allows specific engine revs.. As bw has pointed out and I'd noticed while mucking about you can't use the accelerator to maintain a stable engine speed while sitting there.. But there are a good few times when I'm under the bonnet.. Maybe working on cooling system or playing with the scope I'd like to have the ability to operate the accelerator while I'm there.. That's all I'm looking to do.. Not create a power take off type control..
Anyway that's all for when I've got nothing better to do |
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20th Apr 2024 5:34pm |
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| kevin-h Member Since: 24 Mar 2020 Location: Huddersfield Posts: 27
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So... an update to my problem.
I decided to swap out the accelerator pedal assembly and also the temperature sensor (I'd read on here that the temperature sensor can have an effect and it seemed cost effective whilst the vehicle was in the garage). An hours work for the garage. Since the work was done there have been no engine fault / limp mode nor loss of power without the engine light coming on which was a more common symptom. Right up until the work was done the issue was getting more frequent even right up to driving to the garage. Hopefully this is sorted now, however previously it has been extremely troublesome and then literally just stopped then reappeared after a few months. I'm confident its sorted but it will remain in the back of my mind until 6 months or so have passed. Thanks to all who commented and helped me with this. |
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26th Apr 2024 9:47am |
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