 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > P0101 Fault HEADACHE |
 
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5729  
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Assume they have swapped to known good MAF and that error still occurs
Water is known to kill MAF’s. |
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4th Dec 2023 3:41pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 538 
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I'm not going to be of much help here but I have been messing around with a few sensors on the same engine..
The water, and assuming it is pure water no coolant present I'd just check again after some use.. The mass air flow sensor can be checked with a scope to see if it is behaving as expected or has a fault on it.. It receives a 12v supply.. Outputs a digital signal for both mass air flow and air temp.. And the frequency of switching which is an indication of the flow can be checked and compared with a known good.. A screenshot of one I dis a week or so ago  Click image to enlarge |
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4th Dec 2023 4:20pm |
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| nufc1ac Member Since: 22 Nov 2023 Location: Tyne and Wear Posts: 10
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Yes I believe he has tried a new Bosch one |
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5th Dec 2023 1:24pm |
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| nufc1ac Member Since: 22 Nov 2023 Location: Tyne and Wear Posts: 10
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Thanks, I think he was going to test with a scope today so fingers crossed! I gather an air filter offers such low resistance so it must be something relatively minor as to why it goes into fault when the air filter is in, but not when removed |
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5th Dec 2023 1:27pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 538
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Hope you get it sorted.. Can't think that a good air filter would cause a fault on the sensor, but can't argue with facts.. I'm sure whatever type of air intake system you have will have been checked for any rather possible obstructions..
If they do use a scope, then a comparison between the fault and non fault set ups should show up if it is a mass air flow issue.. The likes of pico automotive give examples of what to expect from a good sensor.. 👍 Good luck |
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5th Dec 2023 2:15pm |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5729
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Have you checked the air intake pipework is all clear, even before the air filter.
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5th Dec 2023 4:08pm |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 2044
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As per above, it may be a blockage...or faulty sensor.
If none of the original air intake pipes after the airbox had a split then the only way water would have got into the intercooler (IC) is via the air filter. This can happen if you did a lot of driving in heavy rain and the airbox drain is blocked. With that much water it would have saturated the filter and bits may have broken off and stuck in either the airbox to turbo hose, the turbo, turbo to IC hose, IC, IC to metal pipe, metal pipe to inlet manifold (90 degrees bend) and inlet manifold. You said silicon hoses were subsequently fitted, so I would check the IC to see if there are bits of filter in there, and the airbox to turbo hose. You also have to check the MAF, Air charge sensor (it’s actually an air charge temperature sensor) in the metal pipe and the MAP sensor. See this topic for details on sensor locations https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69503.html?highlight=sensor Ps re the sensors .- My understanding of the roles these sensors perform. So function wise the MAF is measuring the volume of air from the filter box on its way to the turbo, the turbo is compressing the air but in doing so also heats it, so the compressed air is sent to the intercooler to be cooled and increase its density, the Air Charge Sensor is measuring the temperature of the air exiting the intercooler and heading to the inlet manifold and the MAP sensor is measuring the pressure of the air in the inlet manifold. These three sensors are providing inputs that are used with other inputs to determine and provide the optimum fuel air mixture at any specific time. |
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5th Dec 2023 7:55pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 538
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As I said above I've been playing with a scope to look at the maft sensor.. And while that information doesn't give an output in mass or volume it can be used to compare good and bad as the switching frequency of the output signal is proportional to the mass of air flowing..and if you have a good example of a waveform then you should be able to identify a bad sensor by comparison..
Torque however will give the flow in grams per second.. Its actually remarkably accurate if you can be bothered to do the calculations based on the known weight of air.. The rpm at any given time.. The only variable to work with is the volumetric effeciency which I took as about 90% and my engine is the 2.2l.. I was surprised that the grams per second reading on torque was approx what was calculated.. That reading of air flow in mass of air in grams per sec is the amount of air flowing.. The turbo will obviously compress it and it will occupy a smaller volume but mass of air is mass of air.. That won't change The maps will determine how much fuel to inject given the pressure and temp etc etc.. That's basically how I see it anyway.. |
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5th Dec 2023 8:40pm |
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| nufc1ac Member Since: 22 Nov 2023 Location: Tyne and Wear Posts: 10
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Sorted (we think)! MAF sensor was the blame.
They had tried a new one in but this seemingly wasn’t the right one. Another defender of the same age was in for some work and so tried their maf sensor in and ran no issues. Same one now in mine and been running fine this week. Fingers crossed 🤞🏼 |
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20th Dec 2023 9:08pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 538
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Good to hear..
The maf sensor fitted to the pumas has a digital output.. On a scope the trace you get of the frequency of the switching voltage which represents the mass of air flowing is very similar to the analogue mass air flow sensors trace.. They obviously arnt interchangeable as the ecu needs to see the right one but they physically look identical I believe.., could that have been the issue with the one that was tried.. Ie wrong type.. |
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20th Dec 2023 10:37pm |
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| nufc1ac Member Since: 22 Nov 2023 Location: Tyne and Wear Posts: 10
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bad news - into fault again.
Done about 400 miles since picking it up and into fault when doing approx 70mph 2500-3000 rpm yesterday back to the garage if they want another crack at it land rover wont touch it as its had bowler stage 2 remap etc any recommendations for other north east based garages if the original one draw a blank? |
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27th Dec 2023 12:35pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 538
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These are just some more thoughts..
How long have you had the stage two map.. I'm wondering is there any possibility there is an incompatibility between the air requirements of that map and the sensor., or the actual intake capacity of your set up not been capable of supplying what is required.. Can you switch maps back to standard and try that for a while..?? |
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27th Dec 2023 1:38pm |
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| nufc1ac Member Since: 22 Nov 2023 Location: Tyne and Wear Posts: 10
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hmm yes that is an interesting thought. If the garage that I'm using cant do that, then I've got another in mind that might.
I bought the car in august 23. Looking through the file of paperwork. Remap done at bowler in 2017 Raised air intake 2020 at flatdog. Previous owner who had both bits done reports no history of any issue (he part-ex'd and I bought it from a dealership but managed to track him down on facebook). |
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27th Dec 2023 2:08pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 538
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well as I said just thoughts but the map appears to have been on long enough to have flagged up issues before now..
I have read that certain upgrades are incompatible with raised air intakes..but I think they were referring to a turbo upgrade.. |
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27th Dec 2023 2:34pm |
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