 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Trying To Understand The Current Market |
 
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3643   
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I think some of the known names sellers are still quoting high prices and some with deep pockets are paying those prices, however the underlying prices are now much more realistic (for fairly normal vehicles) and the prices achieved are substantially lower than they were a few years ago. However we must remember that even the newest TDCIs are now 7 years old and some 7 year old vehicles are already very tired and others which are older are in like new condition, so those good ones will hold a premium. DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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5th Oct 2023 8:02am |
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| BrickBox Member Since: 05 Oct 2021 Location: Wales Posts: 838  
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As above - I think it’s condition over age/mileage at this point now.
People are willing to pay more for a mint 2011 (for example) than an average used 2015. They’re not made anymore, so people are buying on condition. Obviously any mint last production ones are commanding serious money. I’m glad people are cherishing them ans keeping some mint, but that’s not what a defender is about in my eyes. Buy one you can use and enjoy. You can rebuild one to like new condition anyway. 2008 2.4 110 Utility Station Wagon XS. |
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5th Oct 2023 8:27am |
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| Puma_MOG Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Cheshire Posts: 184 
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All good points, thank you both.
I'll keep my search going and fingers crossed something comes up in budget and spec. |
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5th Oct 2023 9:04am |
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| Clemmo Member Since: 03 Aug 2012 Location: Mile Oak Posts: 1219  
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I always set out a list of must haves.. Colours, Engine etc..
and a list of don't wants..Age, body style..etc and of course Max budget. Fixed. If a car fits the list criteria view it...dont stray from the list ( it has to be reasonable of course) Look at each car and decide am I happy to pay £????. then go for it. Don't lust outside your budget 
Don't buy as an investment..buy because you like it/ want it. Defender market is all very much in the eye of the beholder. Not sure "value" is a word that can be attributed to Defender. Clemmo  Make today a little better than yesterday but not so good as tomorrow....
Defender 90 HT............Pangea Green BMW X3 Msport............Carbon Black Mini Electric................Grey. (wow!) MGB Roadster……..........Vermillion 17k miles Honda Benly CD200....Maroon --------McLouis Fusio........7.4m of fun |
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5th Oct 2023 9:32am |
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| jim4244 Member Since: 13 Apr 2014 Location: Bedfordshire Posts: 803 
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Hmmmmm….. I fully expected the Defender market to soften much more than it has and have been surprised at the prices a good, well maintained 300Tdi or TD5 will fetch, especially if they are a short wheel base 90.
I don’t know that much about the newer TDCi models but I guess that the spec, colour, mileage and service history all play a huge part in the final selling price. At the end of the day Defenders are a niche market and the individual vehicle sets it’s own price. Just my thoughts Jim |
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5th Oct 2023 10:43am |
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| Clemmo Member Since: 03 Aug 2012 Location: Mile Oak Posts: 1219
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Thing is sellers may well set the price..
but buyers dictate the market value. Often said..its worth what someone will pay. Many Autotrader Ads start very highly priced and slowly work down to "Market value" I sold on Autotrader just last week. I priced mine ( A Motorhome) bang in the middle of similar private sales.Several phone calls, first viewing and it sold. Now maybe I could have hung out for a little more but I believe it achieved true Market Value. I know folks aim high...but generally they hang on for a sale for much longer and inevitably reduce the asking price. Make today a little better than yesterday but not so good as tomorrow.... Defender 90 HT............Pangea Green BMW X3 Msport............Carbon Black Mini Electric................Grey. (wow!) MGB Roadster……..........Vermillion 17k miles Honda Benly CD200....Maroon --------McLouis Fusio........7.4m of fun |
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5th Oct 2023 11:09am |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1084  
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Other than the distinctive look and recognition I don't really understand people buying them 'as a life style thing' that are not technically inclined.
They are bloody hard to live with and they decay rapidly in front of your eyes unless you look after them continuously. They are also not the easiest to drive not to mention the failing green credentials and government crusade against diesels. Although you will always have people that are more interested in what other people think of them buy Defenders I think in the end it remains a bit of a nerdy market and with a fair supply you would expect the market to soften to a more reasonable price point. |
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5th Oct 2023 11:11am |
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| BrickBox Member Since: 05 Oct 2021 Location: Wales Posts: 838
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With the amount being exported currently, I’d say the number of Defenders available are quickly declining in the U.K.
as each year passes and more touch the 25 year old, they’re getting bought up by export companies, tarted up and shipped. If not legally, stolen and shipped illegally. When you think the earliest Puma defenders are edging towards 20 years old, I think the market will look very different in another 5 years from now. TD5 are just getting into the export bracket age already. Granted the LHD/RHD argument exists. But Defenders are easy to convert if needed. 2008 2.4 110 Utility Station Wagon XS. |
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5th Oct 2023 11:23pm |
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| Mr Fox Member Since: 10 Sep 2011 Location: green & pleasant land Posts: 1037 
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Don't be too focused on auction sales results; it is quite surprising how many sold vehicles end up being relisted a few weeks to a month later with the same dealer. I've watched at least half a dozen cars sell on Car & Classic auctions, only to be relisted. I went as far as to contact one dealer to enquire about the vehicle (not a Defender) and the humour story of why it was back up for sale made writing the email worth the effort.  My response was that I'd be happy to buy it at what it sold for at auction and he went quiet.
Far too much fake bidding going on. As for Defenders, the good ones command decent money but the issue I found was wadding through the less than good to find the gems. Good luck in your search. |
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6th Oct 2023 12:17pm |
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| X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295 
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Hello Puma_MOG
I can sympathise with your observations as 'we' went through this last year. Short-ish Story... After owning a 300tdi, from new, for 19 years, when Landrover announced they were going to end the Defender, we thought we would buy in 'near the end', which as we know didn't happen as LR originally presented. Sold the 300tdi for 6K less than we bought it for, my brother couldn't believe how strong the Defender market was, being use to Discovery's and the devaluation they seem to 'suffer' from. So the 90 arrived in 2013, a late 2010 2.4 Puma with 6K on the clock, condition near perfect and a good price at the time. Then prices increasingly appeared to be all over the place (as we know). When my wife decided last year she wanted a 110, I was some what nervous to re-enter the Market, knowing that (for us) we wanted another late 2.4, so we would be looking now for a 10 year old vehicle. It took us 4 months (Jan - Apr 2022) to find her Defender, a 2011 110 with 22K on the clock, and in almost unbelievable condition. Price was OK for the market at that time. Overall I'd say the following: 1. To some degree park logic when buying a Defender. For many they don't make sense, but for those who they do, the market is the market and for a good one has remained strong, (I'm discounting the rubbish that is trying to pass off as OK). 2. The replacement Defender has helped to keep 'old Defender' prices strong, as there is such a price difference to get into a Def'2. 3. We looked at 5 vehicles before buying the 110, 2 were possible candidates but both had high-ish mileage and too high a price, the other 2 we knew on arrival were a no, 1 was low mileage but no documentation or service record. 4. Whatever your search list looks like, stick out for something that meets most of your wants. 5. We know two dealers locally to us that buy and sell good used cars and have both followed and traded in Defenders, we did 'tap' into their knowledge when buying last year, with both probably what the dealer we bought the 110 from had in the vehicle financially, and also what the trade / retail price at various condition levels should have been. Good luck with your search...  Click image to enlarge SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html |
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6th Oct 2023 5:56pm |
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| Puma_MOG Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Cheshire Posts: 184
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A bit late on this...
Many thanks for the advice and detailed replies given. All is very much appreciated. A bit of a headbanger here. I found what I view as an absolute gem and meets 90% of my spec criteria. The bits missing are easily added later. So, I contacted the retailer, agreed on a price and was set to visit. Unfortunately the person who was to have bought my Morgan that I was selling backed out at the last min and forced me to back out. Weeks went by and this 90 was still for sale and I had another buyer for my Morgan. Again, the buyer backed out but seeing as I truly wanted the 90 I called again and arranged a viewing. It truly was amazing bar a botched window block paint fix where they were painted on the car. I assume easily fixed. The visit however was horrible. Unknown to me at the time the person I was dealing with had some bad news so wasn't in the greatest of moods which made the 6 hr round trip for me a bit underwhelming. yes, the vehicle was what I wanted but let's be honest, at the prices these command and paying retailer price one expects a bit of an experience. I drove home feeling deflated but after hearing the reason for it all we agreed on a price and for a brief moment I got the Defender I was looking for. However, as it happens, the day after I get a call from my doctor who I had visited re: a back issue that resulted from a severe car accident years ago. What I thought was a flair up looked like it was much serious and needed immediate surgery. I had to cancel the deal. The major kick in the teeth was after a few days of doctor visits resulted in them doing a u-turn and in fact it was misdiagnosed. I reached out to the dealer and the Defender was sold.  It's frustrating that circumstances come up at the worse time and derail things, be it first world problems of course!
Alas, I started my online searches again and low and behold another one came up in the spec I wanted and get this, it's the same car! Looks like the dealer I visited wholesaled it to another. Oddly enough, they are listing it at a higher price than the first dealer who I had negotiated down to what I felt was a more realistic price. I'm tempted to post details but don't want to ruffle feathers. I'll be ringing them first thing in the AM but feel that with their now higher price on an example that sat at the first dealer since July, I might have an uphill battle on my hands. Fingers crossed... |
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9th Nov 2023 1:53am |
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| Puma_MOG Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Cheshire Posts: 184
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Thought I'd do a small update. Still on the hunt!
I have however noticed some shifts in regards to pricing which has me scratching my head. A few examples pop up with that I feel are priced correctly and they linger for a bit but eventually sell. More interesting is the influx of new listings that are showing asking prices well above what they were even during the craziness during Covid and vehicle shortages. For example, a Landmark Edition that sold on Collecting Cars, for approx £38,000 with fees, a few weeks back is now back for sale, private seller, for £10,000 more! For a few weeks I thought the market was softening but either a few sellers are in la la land or the market is picking up again. |
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26th Nov 2023 5:14pm |
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| Glen-I Member Since: 21 Oct 2023 Location: Berkshire Posts: 35
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It is a strange market at the moment.
I just sold my TD5 110 that I'd owned for the past 11 years for more than I paid for it. The replacement I was after had to be a 110XS TDCi, and I only wanted it in Corris Grey. Some say its a second hand vehicle so you can't be fussy, but with the money I'm about to spend, I'll have the colour I want. The other thing I don't like (very personal, I know), is chequer plates anywhere. Because of this I've now narrowed the options down to a very few. In someway this makes life easier, but I'm now presented with what the going price is in terms of what they're being advertised for. I know deep down, I paid a lot really, for what is a 9yr old Defender, however, it has full service history with 2 previous owners and covered only 30k. I could've gone to the seller and said I'll give you X amount and he would laugh, and told me to go away. I could carry on like this for ages possibly? However I wasn't in a position where I could do without a vehicle. I found this was the Defender for me, in the colour of my choice, with no chequer plate anywhere, and 'hopefully' loved and cared for. Click image to enlarge Having said that, within the 1st 6 weeks of ownership, I've replaced the rear half shafts with 1 piece items, and the Ashcroft uprated output shaft. Chances are though, I would've done that anyway to whatever I had purchased to eliminate future issues. I'm well adversed to Defenders and realise you need to replace parts before its too late! It's a vicious circle, as we all know they're over priced, but I do see some dealers and private sellers asking silly money, and they're sat there for months. Will I be as lucky after 11 years with this one?? I don't think so, but then if someone told me my TD5 will sell for more 11 years later, I would laughed and said you're bonkers! So long as I have a fairly good experience (I know, I know.....its a Defender), and it does me proud, then I'm happy. My brother has just got his 2023 RR Sport that he's been waiting for for over 18months, I can't wait to see what that'll be worth in 3 years🤣. |
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26th Nov 2023 5:56pm |
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| Puma_MOG Member Since: 08 Sep 2017 Location: Cheshire Posts: 184
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That is a lovely looking 110 and congrats!
I am with you on the plating. I am set on green and have seen a few nice examples that have plating which otherwise would be perfect. I even started looking into what it would cost to remove but then told myself to just wait and get what I want. Still kicking myself for missing out on the 90 I touched on a few posts back and all over a misunderstanding with my doctor. The bigger kick in the pants is that another retailer bought it and now is selling it for more than the previous one. The one thing I can't understand was that the first retailer couldn't shift it for the better part of a year and was able to get a significant discount and now seeing it for more. I was tempted to just pay the asking price but we are talking about almost £7,000 more and a few bits still need sorting on it. |
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26th Nov 2023 6:41pm |
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