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Home > Puma (Tdci) > Clutch fluid.. Dot 4

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andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515

Clutch fluid.. Dot 4 Click image to enlarge I've recently replaced my clutch complete with new master cylinder.. The pipework was well flushed and the new master cylinder and fluid has been on for a week.. Its covered less than 300 miles.. I was checking the fluid level today which was fine but the fluid had a black cloud in it like a groath.. It looked like I could fish it out but instead it just mixed with the clean fluid.. Anyone any experience of similar or an explanation.. Photos not great but you can hopefully see what I'm on about Click image to enlarge

21st Sep 2023 3:56pm

geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4410	I believe it is bacterial growth, possibly related to H2O content of the fluid.
21st Sep 2023 5:43pm

andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515

thanks geo thats what I first thought ..water content of fluid im not so sure about.. im happy that the system hasn't been contaminated with water and surely the fluid which was new and sealed isn't going to take on water that quickly.. what causes the defender clutch fluid to get so black looking in normal use..ive read quite a few people commenting on that , and it seems to be peculiar to land rovers , or is that not the case..as you know I haven't been around defenders long enough to reach my own conclusions edit.. ive syringed the fluid out into a jar and topped up with fresh till it looks clear again, im assuming if its bacterial it will re form.. whether the clutch is in use or not

21st Sep 2023 6:53pm

geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4410	It is amazing how hydroscopic DOT4 is, it just sucks moisture out of the air and it is well known that vehicles that have sat for years can absorb a high percentage of H2O whilst just sitting still. If you are keen then a tool like this is a handy thing to have for the DIY'er and especially if you enjoy splashing through puddles or fords. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Laser-4875-Brake-...amp;sr=8-9
22nd Sep 2023 7:26am

andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515	Ta geo.. I don't have that tool but looks handy.. I'll have a, read.. As I said I don't think in this case the moisture theory in the fluid holds water👍🤣 It's brand new out of a sealed container and only a week old.. The system was thoroughly cleaned and flushed with new fluid and every component bar the pipes is new..
22nd Sep 2023 7:55am

geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4410	No problem at all. It is not the same fluid, but it is amazing how much bacteria grows within Lanoguard if left in a warm place for a while Anyway...
22nd Sep 2023 11:33am

ibsley Member Since: 01 Aug 2023 Location: Nimes Posts: 23	I asked my local garage about moisture and they recommended using DOT 5 (not DOT 5.1) as it seems to be the only hygrophobic formula.
26th Sep 2023 2:06pm

TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1052

It looks more like dust/dirt possibly present within the components particularly rubber from the seals. Maybe just suck the reservoir clean and replenish see what happens. With most brake fluid being hygroscopic does that not mean that the absorbed water is not available for things like corrosion and or bacterial growth (until saturated). The boiling point goes up which is the main issue with old brake fluid (if you like boiling your brakes - like on a race track..) Just to summarize without too much details: DOT3 poly-glycol-based, hygroscopic DOT4 poly-glycol-based same as DOT 3 better boiling specs, hygroscopic DOT5 silicone-based, does not absorb moisture - Hydrophobic DOT 5 is better resistant to rust and corrosion and lasts longer than DOT 3 or DOT 4. CANNOT BE MIXED with other DOT fluids. DOT5.1 Reformulated blend of DOT 5 brake fluid and is compatible with DOT 3 and DOT 4 braking systems as 5.1 is a glycol-based fluids and hygroscopic, just better specs again. Regardless you should not mix and instead drain completely (good luck!) when changing original spec. DOT5 is obviously the one to watch. DOT4 is the standard landrover spec for Defenders.

26th Sep 2023 2:31pm

Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414	One more advantage of Dot5 is that it does not eat paint if it leaks. As with anything, there are different views, as different people view the pros and cons differently. May also read this thread on the Dot5 topic: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic78646.html 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
26th Sep 2023 3:19pm

blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17386

TexasRover wrote: ... With most brake fluid being hygroscopic does that not mean that the absorbed water is not available for things like corrosion and or bacterial growth (until saturated). The boiling point goes up which is the main issue with old brake fluid (if you like boiling your brakes - like on a race track..)... Surely you mean the boiling point goes down, i.e., the fluid boils at a lower temperature?

26th Sep 2023 3:22pm

andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515

Hi.. Thanks for the replies.. My immediate thoughts are I'd be reluctant to change to a silicone based fluid without replacing all the components and making sure it was compatable.. As you have read I'm not persuaded by the moisture and bacteria points.. To me it is as was suggested above debri from seals and or the aluminium bore.. The stuff only appears after use of the clutch.. Its not multiplying in the jars I'm syphoning it off into.. The nearest likeness I can compare it to is the debris that appears in water you use to lubricate a knife sharpening stone.. Atm all I'm doing is removing it as it appears and topping up with fresh fluid.. Can't believe it's only defenders that suffer from this, but I've never come across it to this extent in any other vehicle I've owned.. My collection so far.. If you disturb or shake the jar it just dissipates into the fluis causing it to darken.. Then it settles out into patches again.. Click image to enlarge

26th Sep 2023 4:38pm

andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515

At the risk of boring folk who might not see anything unusual about this contamination of the clutch fluid.. Defenders always seem to have dirty clutch fluid or so it would seem.. And I'm new to all things landrover.. Anyhow I'm still keeping an eye on it.. Each time I use it I'm checking the reservoir and syphoning off the debris.. It does appear to be coming from the master cylinder.. Click image to enlarge And after syphoning Click image to enlarge Another one showing two jars with the syphoned fluid.. The top one has been gently shaken and the debris dispersed into the fluid darkening it.. In a day or so it will reform as in the bottom jar Click image to enlarge

1st Oct 2023 8:59am

andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515	Duplicate.. Edited👍
1st Oct 2023 9:06am

Screbble Member Since: 26 Apr 2015 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2102	Interesting. I’d still support Geo’s suggestion of purchasing a relatively inexpensive tool to measure water content of brake/clutch fluid. Invaluable
1st Oct 2023 10:18am

andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 515

Yep.. I will get a tool as he suggested.. Geo has given me quite a bit advice over my defender,👍 It's just I can not believe this is moisture related.. The fluid may be hygroscopic but it's brand new fluid and the system has been well flushed with new fluid.. I'm at the end of a litre bottle and lost count of the number of reservoir full that have been through the system.. It also is becoming pretty clear it's appearing after use.. Not just from sitting..

1st Oct 2023 10:28am

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