 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Clutch pedal pressure loss / Puma 2.4 |
 
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| ibsley Member Since: 01 Aug 2023 Location: Nimes Posts: 23   
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Hi,
Context I have a LHD, 2008 Puma 2.4. Operating as expected before a long trip away. On returning, not having driven it for ~1 month, I tried to start the car. Symptom I depressed the clutch pedal (i.e. foot to the floor) and switched ignition on: car lurched forward about a foot and stalled. Analysis Seems that the clutch is not disengaging – I couldn't get the gear lever into neutral. I tried the clutch pedal a few times: it seems to have lost pressure, and the car is stuck in gear. Diff lock also won't budge. Brake pedal is fine. Attempts A look at the threads on this forum suggested check fluid, which I did (quite dirty, syringed out from top and refilled). Pumped clutch, released a few air bubbles out of the top of the clutch fluid reservoir, but no change in pressure. I'd like to bleed/purge the system and refill with completely fresh clutch fluid. But I can't find the bleed nipple/valve. (This is why I used a syringe from the top). Is the clutch bleed located differently on the RHD model? It doesn't appear to be next to the bell housing, but I'm not experienced so I may be looking in the wrong place. Mine is a 110, in case that matters. Assuming I can bleed and refresh all clutch fluid, and still no clutch operation, what would the next step be? I am miles away from a garage and don't have a trailer to tow. Any help much appreciated! |
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3rd Aug 2023 11:40am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414  
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Hopefully this thread will help you.
https://www.defender2.net/forum/post552660.html Have some questions: 1. Is the clutch pedal very soft, or do you feel normal resistance? 2. When you depressed the clutch pedal, and tried to start, was the gearbox engaged in any gear? or was it in neutral? If the gearbox is in gear, and difficult to get it into neutral, you may ask someone to push/pull the Defender (handbrake released) until the gearbox can be put into neutral (of course you need to be on level ground). Do not force the gearlever. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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3rd Aug 2023 1:06pm |
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| HTB Member Since: 24 Mar 2013 Location: Surrey Posts: 71  
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take a look at this thread - and others. https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic48246.html
it should be in the same place on an LHD vehicle. The slave cylinder is INSIDE the bell housing on a Puma therefore not as obvious as on a TD5 or earlier, so if its failed, the gearbox has to come out which is a complete PITA. Check the fluid level in your master cylinder (and colour of fluid). If you are lucky the cylinder can be replaced or rebuilt (probably worth replacing - consider an LOF for easier pedal action). If you are unlucky the slave cylinder has died. https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic85634...e+cylinder |
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3rd Aug 2023 1:10pm |
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| ibsley Member Since: 01 Aug 2023 Location: Nimes Posts: 23
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Thanks Dinnu.
I did go through that thread, and got stuck trying to find the bleed valve. In the diagrams posted by agentmulder, I can't tell what the orientation of the valve (#1 in the top diagram, #19 in the bottom) should be which complicates the search. I did find one candidate but there is nothing like a 'two flats' release (or a plastic cover) on the valve so unless the nipple has been replaced by a former owner, I'm still lost. To your questions: 1. I'd say medium resistance. Easy to depress by hand: and the clutch pedal stays down (i.e. on the floor). The spring seems fine: when I lift the pedal back up by hand, perhaps 1", it springs back to its normal driving position. 2. In gear. What distance should I push? The forward lurches were about 1/6th of a wheel circumference each – and my windscreen is now a few atoms away from a tree branch...and unhelpfully the ground isn't quite level. (Slight downward slope towards the stern). Hope this clarifies. Thanks, |
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3rd Aug 2023 1:16pm |
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| ibsley Member Since: 01 Aug 2023 Location: Nimes Posts: 23
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Thanks for these replies.
Got someone to help and bump the gearbox back into neutral, exactly as you described. Checked fluid (will try your stick to the pedal method next time to bleed) but no joy. So hauling it off to the garage as I don't feel up to taking the gearbox out. Shame but let's see what the professionals say. I appreciate your help here. What's a LOF? |
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4th Aug 2023 12:57pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414
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This will explain: https://lofclutches.com/ 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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4th Aug 2023 1:32pm |
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| ibsley Member Since: 01 Aug 2023 Location: Nimes Posts: 23
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Great, thank you
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4th Aug 2023 3:16pm |
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| ibsley Member Since: 01 Aug 2023 Location: Nimes Posts: 23
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In case of interest to you: the whole clutch was done for, and the cylinders too. No precise culprit determined (which often seems to be the case with Defenders, at least with Pumas it seems) so that's a story for another day.
I talked with LOF and am now fitting both a powerspec clutch and a new MT82 output shaft. Should be ready in a few days – I can't wait! Thanks again for your help |
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13th Sep 2023 10:26am |
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| ibsley Member Since: 01 Aug 2023 Location: Nimes Posts: 23
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Updating just in case of any interest.
The garage replaced the entire clutch with a LOF powerspec unit, and swapped out the (busted) slave cylinder too. I opted for an LOF output shaft (MT82) as well as the old one was completely worn, splines down to the last few microns. Altogether pretty pricey but it now runs much more smoothly, although still some clunking going from 3-4 and sometimes 4-5. Perhaps that is normal? Refilled clutch fluid using DOT4 as all the professionals recommend it, but it considering a complete drain and redoing with DOT5. Thanks for your advice above, everyone! |
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27th Sep 2023 8:10am |
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| MatLandy Member Since: 11 Sep 2020 Location: Paris Posts: 184 
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DOT4 and DOT5.1 can be mixed together as they are all glycol-based fluids.
DOT5 is silicone based. I would not use DOT5 anywhere in a Defender. /Mat |
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27th Sep 2023 8:29am |
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| wyvern Member Since: 13 Dec 2009 Location: Cornwall Posts: 2101 
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Be aware that LOF recommend that the master cylinder NOT be changed for a few months until the clutch has bedded or the master and salve cylinders will fail again - this has happened to me and a couple of others that I know ... so something to watch for and read the small print in the instructions !!!
 Poppy - TDCI (Puma) 110XS 2.2 - Camper conversion - see the build here - https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic56530.html
Elgar -TDCI(Puma) 110XS Dormobile - now sold Devon & Cornwall 4x4 Response - DC126  |
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27th Sep 2023 8:58am |
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| ibsley Member Since: 01 Aug 2023 Location: Nimes Posts: 23
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Interesting, thanks for the context.
What would be the issue using DOT5 on a Defender? I was following this thread: https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic89524.html but am none the wiser. |
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27th Sep 2023 7:06pm |
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| MatLandy Member Since: 11 Sep 2020 Location: Paris Posts: 184
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Well.. from a practical point of view, LR specifies DOT4 both for brakes an clutch. If any workshop is doing some work for you, this is what they will use. So basically if you have DOT5 already in, they will top up with DOT4, and as explained, they do not mix together. Plus DOT5 is not widely used and difficult to get hold off in some places. If you are after a higher spec fluid, then I would suggest to look into DOT5.1 instead, which can be mixed with DOT4 if needed.
/Mat |
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27th Sep 2023 7:39pm |
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| ibsley Member Since: 01 Aug 2023 Location: Nimes Posts: 23
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Thanks MatLandy, that's much more useful info than the garage gave me. I think I'll stick with DOT4 for now but will check in with any DOT5.1 threads and see how others get on.
Cheers all for your help here! |
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2nd Oct 2023 10:41am |
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