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22900013A

Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3150

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Keswick Green

By the way her work can be seen at www.claudiapatatas.com. Warren, she said if you would like any advice, just drop her an email.

Cheers. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

16th Nov 2011 6:57pm

BigMike

Member Since: 13 Jul 2010
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2253

Brendan, I know my reply was harsh, but I wanted Warren to know the reality and didn't want to "baby" it, there's no point when bills and mortgages could be at stake. It's quite easy to get into a hobby and want to turn it into a business as someone already said, but in doing that, there is a real risk of rose tinted glasses in going into it.

Some of the fun of being a hobbyist photographer is being able to pore over images and spend hours adjusting and playing with them. When you're a professional, you can't do that, there isn't time, and whereas in years one by clients were happy to pay developing costs, these days its VERY hard to get them to pay for retouching. Most clients think you just press a button and it's done. The other issue with that is that a generation of people has come into the graphic design and print industries, and just don't understand about light colour, balance and histograms, and the effect on print of getting any of those elements wrong in the camera. I cant count the number of times I;ve quoted on jobs, not got them, then the client rings and says "er, can you step in to this and rescue it for us because the guy we took on to do it has made a mess". The answer always has to be no.

In terms of equipment, you use the tool you need for the job as I said earlier. small compacts can easily print upto A1 these days without any problems, though when ultimate detail is needed, we use cameras which can be 15 grand plus for the body alone, never mind the lenses. We rent all our gear now, I don't own anything anymore, it's just not economical in the market I'm in, so we rent and the client pays for that rental.

16th Nov 2011 11:27pm

leeds

Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8582

Mike, you have explain very clearly some of the problems/difficulties of the modern day professional photographer. Somtimes things have to be put over in a harsh fashion so that people actually realise that you are being serious.

Sometimes at shows we get asked for discounts and when we say no, the general comment we get is "well, it is a show so we should get a discount". our reply goes along the lines "we should charge you more for it being at a show as we have all the extra expenses of blah, blah blah"

Or you get the comment "how much? There is only 2p worth of material there". Maybe but £10,000 worth of tooling, business rates, insurance etc.

Yes, people need to see the reality of the situation. You certainly come out with a good supply of reality pills, Mike. More importantly you gave reasoned explanations behind your harsh dose of reality pills.

Brendan

16th Nov 2011 11:51pm

22900013A

Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3150

leeds wrote:
Mike, you have explain very clearly some of the problems/difficulties of the modern day professional photographer. Somtimes things have to be put over in a harsh fashion so that people actually realise that you are being serious.

Sometimes at shows we get asked for discounts and when we say no, the general comment we get is "well, it is a show so we should get a discount". our reply goes along the lines "we should charge you more for it being at a show as we have all the extra expenses of blah, blah blah"

Or you get the comment "how much? There is only 2p worth of material there". Maybe but £10,000 worth of tooling, business rates, insurance etc.

Yes, people need to see the reality of the situation. You certainly come out with a good supply of reality pills, Mike. More importantly you gave reasoned explanations behind your harsh dose of reality pills.

Brendan

This happens in any business, most people have next to no idea just how expensive it is to do *anything*. I have literally had people expecting to pay about £150 to move a car on a trailer from the South Coast to Scotland. That won't even cove the fuel, nevermind time, insurance, wear and tear, servicing...these days everyone wants something for nothing. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

17th Nov 2011 8:47am

BigMike

Member Since: 13 Jul 2010
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2253

Sadly when it comes to photography, amateurs with regular jobs will say "I'll do it for 150 quid" when the real rate for the job is about £950. They make a mess of it, the client goes to a pro who quotes the right rate, and they cant get the 150 out of their heads so they end up using the poor images that the amateur did.

Not saying all amateurs do bad work, but when it comes to correct artificial lighting an amateur just can't cut it unfortunately. there is a perception that an on camera flash will do it all, when its the last thing you should use in pretty much all circumstances apart from press work.

17th Nov 2011 12:57pm

warren

Member Since: 14 Oct 2009
Location: East Lancs.
Posts: 903

2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Santorini Black

Could have sworn I replied here last night... Oh well...

Some nice photos on your Mrs' site Dan, already spotted a Series Landy in the background on one the first picture in the wedding gallery

My dad has a telecoms company, and he is forever being undercut by engineers from BT doing extra work on the sly, , or new start up companies that don't last two minutes, or just cash in hand, etc. They'll do a half arsed job, mess it up and leave a mess and expect him to come back and clean up and repair their mess. And then they'll expect him to do it for free or as cheap as the cowboys.

I'd never do any sort of photography work for anyone at the moment, for any price, as I'm very strictly amateur. I did my mates wedding photos (under much protest!) last year, and it was one of the scariest things I've ever done. They were happy with the results, but personally I wasn't. Whether it's because I'm too critical of my own work or not I don't know, I just know when I get married I'd want to pay for someone to do it properly, not just an amateur that doesn't really have much of a clue.

17th Nov 2011 2:26pm

22900013A

Member Since: 23 Dec 2010
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 3150

warren wrote:
Could have sworn I replied here last night... Oh well...

Some nice photos on your Mrs' site Dan, already spotted a Series Landy in the background on one the first picture in the wedding gallery

Its actually an ex-army 110! There are a few more photos of Landrovers and other vehicles but I think they are on her facebook page. 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton
1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker
1969 IIA 1-Ton
1966 IIA 88"

17th Nov 2011 3:19pm

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