 | Home > Technical > 2002 Headlight Issues - main beam always on with ignition |
 
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| Screbble Member Since: 26 Apr 2015 Location: Lancashire Posts: 2081   
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Sorry can’t help with diagnosis but thought the diagrams below might be useful. Good luck 👍
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9th Aug 2023 7:42am |
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| geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4410
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Hello. Congrats on your 2002 Defender. Excellent era Defender  It will fit right in around the backroads of Quebec.
So, let me get this right. Column light switch is in the off position? There should be 3 positions, Off-Sidelights-Dipped main beam. Is the halo DRL wired up to an independent DRL controller or is it wired to a IGN switched live? Sounds like it is wired to the side lights. Really shouldn't be as it will not dim when the main beam headlights are turned on. In IGN Pos 1 the operation works as it should do. Side lights and instruments should illuminate but the main beam shouldn't. The correct operation of a 2002/3 TD5 is this: IGN off - Light Pos 1/2 side lights and instruments IGN 1 - Light Pos 1/2 side lights and instruments (If DRL fitted with controller they should turn on full power) IGN 2 - Instrument panel activates - Light Pos 1/2 side lights and instrument backlight (If DRL fitted with controller they should turn on full power) IGN 3 - Engine on - Instrument panel activates - Light Pos 1 side lights and instrument backlight - Light Pos 2 side lights, instruments and main dipped beam (If DRL fitted with controller they should reduce to half power or turn off). Just to discount something the 10AS immobiliser does not have control over the headlights, just the interior courtesy lights. It sounds like either there has been some bad wiring in the past or maybe the main/high beam light switch could be faulty. It is also worth going over each of the earthing points to make sure they are clean and working properly. The best way forward is to begin tracing the wiring and see if you can find anything that does not look factory. Click image to enlarge |
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9th Aug 2023 8:34am |
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| docperio44 Member Since: 08 Aug 2023 Location: Quebec Posts: 21  
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Thanks for the response! So to answer your questions/clarify
1. DRL is wired up to headlight leveling motor -- which always has power with ignition. (When working properly, I don't mind them on with main beam.) 2. You are correct on Ignition 1 working -- Position 0 - all is off, position 1 & 2, sidelights but no main (even in position 3). 3. Ign 2 (panel activates) brings lights on with main beam in all 3 light switch positions. The car has AC - and I see a good amount of electrical tape so I don't know if wiring has been messed with. I still cannot find dim dip relay or resistor. I will check the main beam relay, ground, see if I'm getting a voltage change with any movement in the light switch -- perhaps the LEDs are masking some of that. |
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9th Aug 2023 11:23am |
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| geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4410
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It sounds like at IGN 3 a switched +ve is feeding the headlights directly. Check that you do not have a stand-alone headlight loom installed. It is a popular upgrade that can become faulty. As standard your headlights have no relay between the light switch and the lights. This is why the light switches are known to burn out as the current draw melts the plastic in the switch. The stand-alone loom adds relays into the system and protects the light switch.
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9th Aug 2023 11:29am |
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| docperio44 Member Since: 08 Aug 2023 Location: Quebec Posts: 21
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Hmmm, I’m pretty handy but not sure what that is. behind the dash, there is some led delay with a small dial/turning knob on top.
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9th Aug 2023 11:32am |
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| geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4410
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Ok that relay with the knob on it is for the LED indicators to slow the flash up or down. It is needed when there are some incandescent bulbs still in use in some of the indicators, usually th side repeaters.
Right, checking that you have a headlight loom or not is pretty simple. This is the sort of loom that may have been installed https://www.flatdoguk.com/boomslang-perfor...-loom~1607 The two relays are usually fitted to the wing or behind the wing. The loom relies on the original H4 bulb connector being fitted to the loom and the looms new H4 connectors being fitted to the headlights. Usually (but not always) these new H4 plugs are ceramic and have a yellow cover. The original is a black plastic connector. The original connector will trace back into the main wing looms rather than to a pair of standalone relays. |
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9th Aug 2023 11:39am |
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| docperio44 Member Since: 08 Aug 2023 Location: Quebec Posts: 21
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Click image to enlarge Seems original, see pic. Also found that connector on top tucked away. not sure what that is. Voltage is low at 10.6v which matches battery. there is no voltage change between switch positions 0, 1, or 2. All positions at ignition 2 have same 10.6v. so lights are on. |
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9th Aug 2023 12:07pm |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6604 
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Unless there are non-factory modifications to the wiring, there are only two ignition controlled items in the headlamp wiring.
One thing to clarify please, when you say "main beam" do you just mean the headlights are on, or do you actually mean they are on in main/full beam mode (with the blue warning lamp showing in the instrument warning panel?) As per factory wiring: The two items which are ignition controlled are the headlamp relay (C0282), this cuts the supply out from light switch position 3 [HEAD] to the column dip switch when the ignition is OFF. So your experience of the headlamps not working when the switch is in position 1 [OFF] or 2 [SIDE] is correct. The other item is the dim-dip relay (C0048). When ignition ON and side ON and head OFF the dim-dip relay energises and connects the dipped-beam headlights to a reduced voltage supply from the dim-dip resistor. Otherwise, the dipped-beam headlights are supplied from the output from the column switch if the switch is in dipped position (standard position, not pushed forward). It could be that the dim dip relay has failed, so it is ignoring the side and head inputs and just supplying the The original location for the dim dip relay, which is a pink "oversized" relay module, is on the bulkhead, accessible through the right hand speaker hole. If aircon is fitted this might complicate access. The dim dip resistor is on a bracket on the right hand wing, near the side repeater. The connector for it is the same as the indicators/side lights - wire colours to look for are brown with blue [or brown with white] and brown with green. If you can locate either the dim dip relay or the resistor connector, removing either will prove the dim dip system to be the source of the problem. Then you need to bridge terminals 2 and 8 in the dim dip relay socket to remove the dim dip functionality. Another possibility is an aftermarket wiring mod back powering the side/head circuits and confusing the dim dip relay. Or aftermarket wiring/DRL controller directly causing the problem. 1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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9th Aug 2023 12:37pm |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6604
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By the way is your Defender RHD UK spec or LHD?
1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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9th Aug 2023 12:43pm |
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| docperio44 Member Since: 08 Aug 2023 Location: Quebec Posts: 21
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Thanks! It's LHD. Not sure if UK spec.
When I saw mainbeam, I mean that the headlights are on and are the indicator on the dash panel shows they are on. (the symbol for the lights is green in my car and is let up - with light switch off and ignition on). I cannot find dim dip relay or resistor anyway. Car does have AC. Behind dash is a red relay -- doesn't seem to be it, since I bridge 2-8 on that one and wipers stayed on. I can't find any resistor on the RH side near indicator light. I'm lost here... |
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9th Aug 2023 12:46pm |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6604
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OK right, if it's LHD it doesn't have dim-dip. It was a UK spec fitment (UK is RHD).
So, the only ignition *controlled* item in your headlamp wiring is the headlamp relay, but this couldn't turn the headlights on by itself. I think you likely have an aftermarket wiring mod fitted which turns the headlights on with the ignition, as a DRL type arrangement. 1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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9th Aug 2023 1:11pm |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6604
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This diagram applies to your Defender:
https://www.lrworkshop.com/wiring-diagram/...e-tail/td5 1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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9th Aug 2023 1:22pm |
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| docperio44 Member Since: 08 Aug 2023 Location: Quebec Posts: 21
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First Let me say you are awesome for helping me.
However... I may have miss informed you with so much going on. So with the mode fuse discounnect -- none of the lights work -- not even the headlight tilt. Or sidelights. When I connect mod, and switch but leave signal/horn stalk disconected, sidelights and tilt work. As soon as I plug in the stalk -- the main beam comes on. Does that help or hurt? Last edited by docperio44 on 9th Aug 2023 5:56pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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9th Aug 2023 1:27pm |
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| Martin Site Admin Member Since: 02 Apr 2007 Location: Hook Norton Posts: 6604
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Original lighting connector:
Brown/blue: 12V supply in - tapped black Red: sidelights out (in SIDE and HEAD positions) - tapped red Blue: headlights out (in HEAD position only) - tapped as blue This is all fine (apart from the horrendous tapping with chocolate blocks!) The mod is the 3 core cable down to the fusebox area, to what looks like a relay base (the clear connector with red, red, yellow, blue, black. My guess is that there is a double-make relay fitted to that base, connecting the black (12V supply in) to the red and blue when the relay is energised. The relay coil is supplied from via the second red, through the inline fuse to the tap on the factory fuse (guessing this goes to an ignition supplied fuse). If you can find the factory fuse number let us know - diagram on the inside of the fuse box lid. The yellow wire is then a ground. Guesswork but it's an educated guess! To disable it, remove the fuse from the inline fuse holder, this removes the ignition supply to the relay fitted to the clear base. To remove it fully, remove all 3 taps on the light switch plug, remove the fuse tap and remove the clear relay base etc. 1988 90 Td5 NAS soft top
2015 D90 XS SW |
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9th Aug 2023 2:21pm |
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