 | Home > Modifications & Maintenance (L663) > are these 'Bull Bars' legal ??? |
 
|
|
|
| J77 Member Since: 04 Nov 2019 Location: Fife Posts: 3407  
|
Not in the UK as far as I’m aware. 24MY 90 D250 HSE, Tasman Blue
|
||
25th Jul 2023 9:45am |
|
| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 1143 
|
found this on another LR Forum
"Aus only Product" "Certainly wouldn't meet EU pedestrian safety rules" But we, the UK, are no longer in the EU ??? |
||
|
25th Jul 2023 9:49am |
|
| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 1143
|
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/bull-bars/bull-bars
Brexit - but still under EU legislation ??? |
||
|
25th Jul 2023 10:02am |
|
| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 2029 
|
When the UK left he EU we kept the rules that were in place. Unless any specific rule has been revoked then it’s still in place, and the restrictions on these have not been changed.
It’s worth reading topics on front protection, winch bumpers, A bars, bull bars etc in the classic defender sections. Their is a bit of a grey area regarding winch bumpers with integral metal A Bars. However there are still restrictions on them needing to be below the bonnet height etc and whether you can justify having one, ie you need the protection due to your business operations, i.e forestry work. It’s a bit open to interpretation by the police, insurance, courts etc. Noting even if you think all is ok you will need to ensure your insurance company is happy. |
||
|
25th Jul 2023 10:16am |
|
| Moo Member Since: 01 Oct 2021 Location: UK Posts: 1399 
|
I was looking at an ARB bullbat that was LR approved in Australia but couldn't Geta definitive answer for the UK / EU. It's too grey for me to take the risk. Eiger Grey MY23 D250 SE with bits. Known as Noddy.
|
||
|
25th Jul 2023 10:18am |
|
| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 2029
|
The government states “Approved devices will carry an indelible ‘e’ mark (for example: e1 01 1471)” so if it does not have an ‘e’ mark then it’s not approved for use in the UK.
|
||
|
25th Jul 2023 10:27am |
|
| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 1143
|
After I pointed out the UK Law to the seller on eBay, they removed the Bull Bar from sale.
|
||
|
25th Jul 2023 10:57am |
|
| Lightwater Member Since: 28 Jun 2020 Location: Sydney NB Posts: 72 
|
I have seen these 5 post bullbars in the outback. Not exactly ideal for 4WDing or city traffic calming bumps.
 Visitor - Freelander owner |
||
|
25th Jul 2023 11:15am |
|
| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
|
But have you actually read what the page says? Most people on forums do not. they just make it up and say what they want. I'm not a solicitor and I don't know the backing regulations, but that .gov page clearly does not tell the whole picture. Lets look at it and break down what it says..... It is not illegal for vehicles to be fitted with bull bars That should be very easy to understand, they are not ILLEGAL! the department would not recommend their fitment They key word is "recommend"..... i.e. it is not a law, just guidance. However, since 25 May 2007, it has been an offence for bull bars that have not been approved as compliant with those safety standards to be sold. This is the most confusing sentence. Clearly it is not telling us everything as the paragraph above it has already said that bullbars are not illegal. I suspect it is meaning as part of Type Approval or dealer fitment on NEW vehicles. As car makers did stop selling their vehicles with optional bullbars and introduced those soft rubber type ones. I would love to see the actual legislation for this, but my hunch is very much that it is driving at Type Approval, not aftermarket modifications or road worthyness. We can see very clearly there is more going on here. If that statement was 100% true as written, it would be utter nonsense and crazy. Read it again and see if you can spot what it is actually saying. Here is the wording again: However, since 25 May 2007, it has been an offence for bull bars that have not been approved as compliant with those safety standards to be sold. There is a very specific key word...... "sold" It doesn't not saying about about fitting, owning or using. It specifically says "sold". Which again I'm sure is driving at car manufactures and Type Approval for official accessories. Restrictions on items being sold are very limited in the UK, usually around guns or drugs. It would make no sense at all that a bullbar would be a restricted item in the UK. Certainly there is no licensing structure to authorise people to sell bullbars. And it would be utter madness to think a bullbar is in the same category as a machine gun legally. Again we can clearly see there is far more going than this simple statement on the dot gov site. If it really was true that the selling of bullbars is illegal. Then that would include bullbars for off road only vehicles, quad bike, even toys....... obviously this is not the case. So we can conclude it is not accurate to simple say bullbars are illegal in the UK. To further this, again if the selling part is truly illegal, which is the only thing that pages says is. Then there are loads of companies in the UK importing and selling bullbars in the UK. If true, this would be an open and shut case against them. So why aren't they being prosecuted and shutdown? The logical conclusion is that they are not therefore illegal and this guidance is just misleading. Again looking at the wording that it is the selling that is illegal. This would, based on the actual wording mean that selling a 2nd hand bullbar from 1990 would also be illegal. Which is odd, as I'm sure I've seen bullbars for sale on this very site. And I'm sure Defedner2.net is not endorsing illegal activitiy. More evidence to support these conclusions are. Most insurance companies will happily accept a bullbar as a modification to a modern vehicle. I think online comparison sites like Compare the Market even have bullbars specifically listed. If it was a clear open and shut case that these are illegal, no insurance company is going to willing accept and document that they are insuring your vehicle for road use with a bullbar fitted. Yet they do...... Lastly and almost as importantly, you would need to have a definition of what a bullbar actually is. That page certainly doesn't offer anything up. And if you sit back and think about it, it is actually very hard to separate heavy duty winch bumpers or tube bumpers from bullbars. So unless someone can find or locate the supporting Regulations behind the guidance or some Case Law supporting the conclusion that bullbars are illegal in the UK, we can only go on the guidance on that page, which is 100% crystal clear in saying.... It is not illegal for vehicles to be fitted with bull bars That is the only conclusion you can logically make from the information on that page. And before the if buts and maybe's follow. Remember paragraph 2 says it is illegal only to sell a bullbar. Meaning you can legally buy one, the seller would be the one at risk of persecution. But it says nothing about fitting or owning the bullbar, only that they would prefer you didn't fit them (recommendation...).[/b] |
||
|
25th Jul 2023 11:20am |
|
| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
|
As per my post above. It does not say that on the linked page to the dot gov site. It says: Click image to enlarge "to be sold" not "not approved for use in the UK." Different words and different meanings. Unless you have a reference to support "not approved for use in the UK." |
||
|
25th Jul 2023 11:28am |
|
| geobloke Member Since: 06 Nov 2012 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 4410
|
CD this is as I understand it as well
 Nicely put. You can see the impact of the top approval legislation in what LR offered for the Defender since the mid 90s: from full metal bull bars to bull bars with soft padding to the all foam "protection" of the latter TD5s and Pumas.
The emphasis is on the vehicle manufacturers only, otherwise the likes of J.Craddocks and other wouldn't be able to sell ARB bumpers with bull bars https://www.johncraddockltd.co.uk/3432300-...n-arb.html and if it was illegal to fit then they wouldn't even offer them as an accessory. |
||
|
25th Jul 2023 11:33am |
|
| mse Member Since: 06 Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 5038 
|
On the puma defenders the soft bull bar actuall IMPROVED pedestrian safety!
But the question i would ask is why would you want one and thinking about the impact of the vehicle - safer has to be better from a moral perspective I hate driving the tractor on road with the forks on the loader that will do some serious damage Mike |
||
|
3rd Aug 2023 3:03pm |
|
| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
|
Mike, I sort of see what you are saying. But if you really cared about pedestrian safety or other road users, you'd drive the slowest, lightest vehicle you could with the most friendly front end. Or not even drive at all. So even driving any 4x4/SUV or Land Rover product would make you a hypocrite. Not saying you are of course.
So, I don't think you can really criticise people if they want to run any form of HD bumper, be it a bull bar or not. Plenty of other vehicles such as vans, buses and lorries on the roads too. And lots of valid reasons why you may want something on your vehicle. |
||
|
3rd Aug 2023 3:16pm |
|
| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 1143
|
to driver with forks on a tractor, don't the forks have to be at a legal height ?? like well above a vehicle height. |
||
|
3rd Aug 2023 4:08pm |
|
|
|
| All times are GMT |
< Previous Topic | Next Topic > |
Posting Rules
|
Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
