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BaCoNMX6



Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 63
Netherlands 
Defender 110 PUMA - Front swivel hub advice
Hey all,

Hopefully a quick one but while out on my latest camping trip the front DS swivel housing starting throwing grease out the back.

Given the car is 10 years old, with 125k kms and now running 35's I was thinking about doing a full swivel hub rebuild on both sides however when I add the swivel housings, all bearings etc it gets expensive quickly....

So I wanted to get thoughts on what else I could check to see if it's even needed or if I just throw a new wiper seal on it and leave it alone otherwise!

Some pics for reference


Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge
Post #1002571 1st Aug 2023 6:10pm
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rustandoil



Member Since: 08 Sep 2012
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 745
England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS DCPU Bonatti Grey
That swivel ball doesn't look great 😕
.... And you have to remove it to fit the new seal.... Draws you in to a full refurb 😊
Post #1002580 1st Aug 2023 7:04pm
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NickMc



Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1628
Northern Ireland 2006 Defender 90 Td5 HT Bonatti Grey
You don’t, you can unbolt the swivel ball and whole assembly and slip a seal on that way. It’s heavy though.

Avoid the cheap bearings in some kits, check the ball for rust pitting.

You need to check for play in the swivel bearings top and bottom.
Post #1002584 1st Aug 2023 7:12pm
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rustandoil



Member Since: 08 Sep 2012
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 745
England 2005 Defender 110 Td5 XS DCPU Bonatti Grey
Yeah NickMc2 is quite correct.... Especially about the assembly being heavy 🙂
Post #1002586 1st Aug 2023 7:15pm
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NickMc



Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1628
Northern Ireland 2006 Defender 90 Td5 HT Bonatti Grey
Make sure you have the seal retainer the right orientation before you bolt it up or you’ll use a few naughty words Question
Post #1002591 1st Aug 2023 7:21pm
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BaCoNMX6



Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 63
Netherlands 
To replace the swivel hub itself is a full tear down where (if I am.correct) just replacing the felt and rubber seal I can unbolt the entire thing from the rest of the axle housing right?

Weird to me since I used to have Toyotas so you couldn't replace the swivel itself....just sanded them smooth instead!@
Post #1002593 1st Aug 2023 7:25pm
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NickMc



Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1628
Northern Ireland 2006 Defender 90 Td5 HT Bonatti Grey
Yes, I would replace the oil seal in the rear of the ball as well that the half shaft passes through, if going that route FTC3276


The big seal is LR059968 (9mm thick) I like corteco brand.
Post #1002595 1st Aug 2023 7:29pm
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BaCoNMX6



Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 63
Netherlands 
Is there also a felt seal behind the rubber seal and the retainer cover? And I assume a gasket between the swivel and the axle housing too?

And coming back to the first decision....what would trigger you to do a full rebuild vs just replace this seal?

Just a swivel and all bearings is over 500 euros a side!
Post #1002597 1st Aug 2023 7:36pm
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NickMc



Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1628
Northern Ireland 2006 Defender 90 Td5 HT Bonatti Grey
Rust pitting on the ball and worn bearings.

You need to look up the axle year and type to be sure sorry, don’t want to tell you the wrong parts


https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...front-axle
Post #1002608 1st Aug 2023 8:04pm
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macfrank



Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 1081
Germany 2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green
There's just the rubber seal NickMc mentioned:
https://www.lrworkshop.com/diagrams/land-r...s_44783#11

Make sure you get one with two lips. Some model years, including my 2015, have a cheaper version without the outer lip. After an offroad trip it collected dirt and looked a bit wet like yours Smile

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

I cleaned everything and topped up the grease (STC3435) and it's been fine for the last 20.000km.
Post #1002616 1st Aug 2023 8:21pm
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NickMc



Member Since: 01 Oct 2014
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 1628
Northern Ireland 2006 Defender 90 Td5 HT Bonatti Grey
Yes there’s the seal in the back of the ball between the axle tube and ball, that the shaft passes through, I would change it too.
Post #1002620 1st Aug 2023 9:07pm
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HardCharger



Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila
Posts: 740
Philippines 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey
I'm in the same boat as both my swivels are leaking and need seal replacements. I've seen seal kits with all the seals you need available but they all seem to be Brtipart kits?

Would anyone know of a kit made up of OEM seals?

Thanks.
Post #1002633 2nd Aug 2023 3:55am
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donmacn



Member Since: 06 Nov 2017
Location: Nth Scotland
Posts: 1845
 
I agree with Nick above - if I can I'll go for corteco.

Here's a link to one supplier - shows different options: https://www.lrdirect.com/lr059968-oil-seal-drive-shaft

But I thought I'd just add that if you're in a bind, needing to do something quickly and maybe without the tools and workshop etc, you can do what the Army used to call a field repair as a temporary fix.

You essentially leave everything important in place (Swivel, calipers, hubs etc etc)
    1.You remove the old seal and retainer. You'll need to cut them to get them off the axle, and it will be messy as all the grease or oil escapes.
    2. Tidy up!
    3. Make sure you have the new seal retainer the right way around, cut it (where the cut will be towards the top of the seal), and slot it over the axle;
    4. Take the spring out of the new seal and take it apart where it joins. It can be hard to see, but it's there. One part will have a small taper that goes into the other. Put them around the axle and join them with a dab of superglue.
    5. Cut the seal, using as fine a blade/saw as you can. Put it round the axle.
    6. Join the seal carefully using superglue or suitable adhesive (I remember I bought something specific which was a grey powder and a solvent - but no idea what it was).
    7. Put the new, rejoined spring back into the seal and refit the seal. I shouldn't matter too much, but put the cut/rejoined part of the seal at the top. Less chance of it leaking, and less movement there.
    8. Put the new retainer in place, as mentioned above, with the cut bit uppermost.
    9. Sorted.


I said temporary. I know I did this once when time was very tight and I was planning a full axle rebuild later that year. The axle rebuild took a year longer than I'd hoped, so it lasted easily a year and a half including a 3 week trip from Scotland to France. It was still sealing when I took it off.

I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but for all the cost of a seal and a retainer, it might be a good option in some circumstances. Donald

1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong
(The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html )
2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8

in the past..
RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi
1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box
1993 Discovery 300Tdi

not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper...
Post #1002658 2nd Aug 2023 8:07am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17443
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Alternatively:
    - Jack front of vehicle, remove road wheel
    - Unbolt caliper and hang out of the way
    - Disconnect track rod and if applicable drag link
    - Unbolt swivel from axle
    - Withdraw complete swivel assembly with hub etc from axle tube.
    - Replace seal
    - Reassemble by reversing the above.
Post #1002706 2nd Aug 2023 11:39am
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BaCoNMX6



Member Since: 22 Apr 2022
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 63
Netherlands 
Thanks blackwolf, this is exactly the route I am leaning toward since I have no other reason to beleive the wheel bearings need any attention.

Initial thinking was preventative maintenance but costs are huge!
Post #1002738 2nd Aug 2023 3:19pm
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