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Home > Modifications & Maintenance (L663) > How does it break, 3 years in?

When the New Defender Breaks, how hard is it to fix?

I've had minor issues that required dealer intervention.

88%

[8]

I've had major issues that required dealer intervention.

[0]

I've had minor issues that I was able to easily fix trail-side with the tools I had on me.

11%

[1]

I've had major issues that I was able to fix once I got home with the tools in my garage.

[0]

Total Votes: 9

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ChasingOurTrunks

Member Since: 19 Aug 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 89

How does it break, 3 years in?

Hi folks,

I'll throw a poll in here to make it easy to give quick feedback but I'm also interested in the discussion that follows. In short: After 3 years of people using New Defenders, how does it break? Are there clear limits on bush fixability yet, or if a fellow is willing to bring the right tools (incl. laptop with appropriate software - does such a thing exist?) can a person generally tackle what they need to off-grid to get home? What Gremlins are showing up that are proving to be dealbreakers (if any) for a touring rig?

I was 100% sold on the Grenadier instead of the New Defender until the Canadian pricing was announced, and now I am revisiting my next vehicle purchase option. The Gren ended up being $110k CDN for their field/trialmaster packages; when a Gladiator is $65k, and a Chevy Ute is $35k, and even a New Defender is only $90k for substantively similar functionalities (as in, all of these vehicles will make it to the top of the mountain, and the drivers of these vehicles will crack the cold one around the campfire at more or less the same time) it makes spending that kind of money on the Gren a tough pill to swallow. There's lots of argument about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin when it comes to which of these rigs is "better", but for me, the best alternative to the Grenadier keeps coming up as the Defender on paper - payload and off-road specific details (roof carry capacity, reduced towing off road, wading depth, etc.) on the New Defender put them ahead of the third place option which for me is the Gladiator. And, the New Defender crashes exceptionally well, and since I travel with my wife and son that safety is very important to me. My use case is global touringOverlanding, which further limits the options as I'd prefer a global platform that is easily serviced and repaired everywhere, and that gives me the ultimate pause on the New Defender as I don't really know how it breaks. I do not want to be stuck in the middle of a desert with one bar of cell service while my New Defender decides it needs to do an Over the Air Update and tries to download a XYZ gigabyte file with a few bits per second of cell service, or have an unnecessary complex sensor fail and cause my vehicle to require a tow truck in a place where tow trucks cannot go. But I don't really know how likely this risk is, or if my concerns are based on armchair quarterbacking of folks throwing shade at JLR, hence turning to this group with real world experience.

I know Anecdotes don't always tell the full story but as I shop, it would be educational to me to understand some of the real-world experiences. It's actually less useful to hear that people are generally not breaking Defenders -- that's great, but the core of my question is how viable is road-side repair WHEN it breaks, as in my experiences all of 'em will eventually. Even Land Cruisers are rumoured to break down from time to time, though that may be an unsubstantiated internet troll just making stuff up

15th Jul 2023 6:43pm

Nick-St

Member Since: 23 Apr 2013
Location: Surrey
Posts: 267

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey

Haven't had mine for 3 years yet to give any personal feedback. But I would say that any modern engine/gearbox going wrong at a bad moment wouldn't be an easy repair at the side of the road!

The Grenadier was touted as the 'proper' Defender replacement, but still uses a BMW engine and gearbox with their associated ECUs. I think the last Defender that you could fix properly by yourself at the side of the road would be the 300Tdi...

16th Jul 2023 8:25am

MarkBrown

Member Since: 03 Oct 2022
Location: Mid Wales
Posts: 454

1983 Defender 110 Other HT Auto Keswick Green

It will be fine, until it's not, then that's it, you'll need an army of computer engineers to diagnose and replace the sensors. Just like any modern vehicle. I'd agree that a TDI was the last one which could be truly fixed by the road, although relevant parts would be needed. Generally the older it is the simpler it is, but also much more likely to have worn out parts, which could decide to pack up at at the moment. Preventative maintenance is best, but sometimes a new cheap part is worse than an old good one.

As a new car, the new defender will most probably be ok, rugged an capable, but as an old one, well, I doubt it. Time will tell.

16th Jul 2023 9:57am

ChasingOurTrunks

Member Since: 19 Aug 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 89

Thanks for the feedback fellas.

Nick, I think you are right that most modern vehicles will have some challenging repairs at play. But, there are some that are very much walled gardens - for instance, in the motorcycle world, if a fellow owns a BMW Adventure Bike and they need to put a code reader on it, BMW won't actually sell you the software to do so. But, you can get an aftermarket GS911 software program that allows you to do most of the things the BMW software does and do maintenance at home. In contrast, my Triumph is OBDII compliant so a $20 dongle off Amazon allows me to read and reset (and effect the repairs) that trigger all the trouble codes. Another example - some manufacturers won't sell you the Factory Service Manual, which makes even basic maintenance and repairs very difficult. Again, the Triumph example - a FSM was just $150, and covers step by step (with pictures) every part, assembly, disassembly, and inspection.

I suspect the Defender is more like the BMW, with a lot of proprietary bits that discourages the shade-tree mechanic, but I would be interested in hearing if the aftermarket has responded to better support the need.

Mark - thanks for that feedback. I'm OK being my own "army of engineers", as I'm happy travelling with a laptop and a flurry of cables, and even throwing a box or five of spare sensors in the drawer for the bigger adventures where "fix it myself" is a requirement. I'm also happy to put a wrench to metal (or plastic!) in the garage to do my own maintenance in between trips. But, I'd rather not be a trailblazer here and instead know that other people have taken this approach before dropping $90k on it, and so far I've not seen anyone doing their own work which is to bad as this experience would greatly speak to the ease/challenges of bush fixes.

16th Jul 2023 6:14pm

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2639

There’s loads of stuff on the Facebook groups with people modifying and repairing. I’ve seen broken shock absorbers as an example.

The IID tool is likely to offer most of the plug-in diagnostics you’re likely to need.

16th Jul 2023 7:11pm

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1777

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White

looking at it from another angle - if they all lose around 30% of value in the first year or so (and they all will once the initial demand is satisfied and ex lease ones arrive on the second hand market) - buy the 35k ute, drive a bit more carefully and replace it every two years, you could afford to give it away and still be in profit!

Keith

16th Jul 2023 7:17pm

ChasingOurTrunks

Member Since: 19 Aug 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 89

Retroanaconda wrote:
There’s loads of stuff on the Facebook groups with people modifying and repairing. I’ve seen broken shock absorbers as an example.

The IID tool is likely to offer most of the plug-in diagnostics you’re likely to need.

Thanks Retroanaconda, that's helpful. I got rid of Facebook years ago and don't do anything on it, but for the sake of learning more I think I will do a bit of a deeper dive into what's being done in those groups.

I'll look more into this IID tool too. Thank you!

16th Jul 2023 7:51pm

ChasingOurTrunks

Member Since: 19 Aug 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 89

ickle wrote:
looking at it from another angle - if they all lose around 30% of value in the first year or so (and they all will once the initial demand is satisfied and ex lease ones arrive on the second hand market) - buy the 35k ute, drive a bit more carefully and replace it every two years, you could afford to give it away and still be in profit!

Keith

That's a very fair point. To be honest my current Ute does everything I need, but barely. I need a few more places to put things in the cab, and a few more pounds of payload would be nice, but if money is the big barrier, I'll keep running what I have into the ground and replace it with something more or less the same. It's "Good enough" and then some. But, the other metric is "Smiles per Mile" which is important to me too, and the wagon kitted out for adventure brings me lots of smiles in between adventures when the vehicle has to be a regular utility vehicle.

16th Jul 2023 7:54pm

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