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Joel



Member Since: 18 Oct 2020
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 76

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Santorini Black
Rebuilding a 300TDI - Are my DVLA calculations right
Hi All,

I have a 300TDI 110 that is shot, chassis is knackered, as is the engine and back axle. It's done 300k so it's unsurprisingly in need of a rebuild.

I plan to rebuilt it with a TD5 engine and a new chassis, as well as replacing the back axle with a later TD5 type.

As far as I understand the rules are I need to keep 8 points to avoid having to go though DVLA pain.

The chassis I understand as long as is "type approved" - I believe only Marsland chassis have this (happy to be corrected) is 5 points

Steering will be original (I don't believe that there is a difference) 2 points

Transmission will be the same - R380 and LT230 - although rebuilt 2 Points

Suspension seems to be a bit vague - it will still be coil sprung so it depends exactly what they are asking for.

Axles and engine will be different.

Other option is to buy a scrap or almost scrap TD5 but its money I would rather not spend.

Is my reasoning sound? I would rather not have to deal with the DVLA morons.

Joel
Post #1047851 6th Oct 2024 9:29am
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17417

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I may well be wrong (it is hard to keep up with the rate of change of legislation) but my belief was that you could replace the chassis with a brand new chassis of the same design without any impact on the vehicle's identity, you only have chassis-related identity issues with a chassis that has previously been part of another vehicle and registered as such.

No-one keeps a record of axle numbers, so no-one would know if you have changed the axle tube (unless of course you fit a different type of axle, for example change from Rover pattern to Salisbury diff).

You are not "changing" the suspension, just replacing service items.

So in essence you are doing an engine swap from a 300TDi to a TD5, which needs to be notified but as far as I know does not raise identity issues.

My feeling is that you may be overthinking the situation (which is better than erring in the opposite direction).
Post #1047872 6th Oct 2024 12:27pm
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MarkBrown



Member Since: 03 Oct 2022
Location: Mid Wales
Posts: 466

Wales 1983 Defender 110 Other HT Auto Keswick Green
So, essentially an engine swap and a new chassis with some replacement parts used to update the vehicle because that was all that was available. I can’t see a problem, it will still be a 110, just with a later td5. I think when they talk about suspension, steering etc that what is required is the same basic design, so swapping out leaf springs for coils would be a different design. The back axle will still be a solid one, so the same.

The only thing technically that would be different would be the chassis as some brackets would be different, but again the same design and wheelbase, made as a replacement part. I suppose it could be argued that you would be turning it into a td5, but it’s pretty much the same vehicle. The other thing is why swap out the axle? Why not replace like for like - a Salisbury presumably. Then you’ll still have the right one, it then becomes an engine swap. You may need a receipt for the new engine to update the V5 with the correct number. What you can’t do is turn a 110 into a 130 or a 90, or a 100 got that matter, this is a different design ( wheelbase ) I believe that you may be able to turn a 110 into a 127, as I understand that the 127’s stated 110 on the V5, but that’s getting into a pretty grey area, so I wouldn’t do it, plus you’d need one of the right year, presumably.

If you do a chassis swap make sure you cut out the vin number from the old one and either re weld it back on or keep it, you don’t need to inform anyone of this.

Would it not be easier to sell it and buy a rotten td5, then swap the chassis on that?
Post #1047874 6th Oct 2024 12:33pm
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Joel



Member Since: 18 Oct 2020
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 76

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Santorini Black
blackwolf wrote:
I may well be wrong (it is hard to keep up with the rate of change of legislation) but my belief was that you could replace the chassis with a brand new chassis of the same design without any impact on the vehicle's identity, you only have chassis-related identity issues with a chassis that has previously been part of another vehicle and registered as such.

No-one keeps a record of axle numbers, so no-one would know if you have changed the axle tube (unless of course you fit a different type of axle, for example change from Rover pattern to Salisbury diff).

You are not "changing" the suspension, just replacing service items.

So in essence you are doing an engine swap from a 300TDi to a TD5, which needs to be notified but as far as I know does not raise identity issues.

My feeling is that you may be overthinking the situation (which is better than erring in the opposite direction).


Thanks, I am intending to change the Salisbury axle to a rover type, because I have a spare.
Post #1047875 6th Oct 2024 12:44pm
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Joel



Member Since: 18 Oct 2020
Location: Rotherham
Posts: 76

United Kingdom 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Santorini Black
MarkBrown wrote:
So, essentially an engine swap and a new chassis with some replacement parts used to update the vehicle because that was all that was available. I can’t see a problem, it will still be a 110, just with a later td5. I think when they talk about suspension, steering etc that what is required is the same basic design, so swapping out leaf springs for coils would be a different design. The back axle will still be a solid one, so the same.

The only thing technically that would be different would be the chassis as some brackets would be different, but again the same design and wheelbase, made as a replacement part. I suppose it could be argued that you would be turning it into a td5, but it’s pretty much the same vehicle. The other thing is why swap out the axle? Why not replace like for like - a Salisbury presumably. Then you’ll still have the right one, it then becomes an engine swap. You may need a receipt for the new engine to update the V5 with the correct number. What you can’t do is turn a 110 into a 130 or a 90, or a 100 got that matter, this is a different design ( wheelbase ) I believe that you may be able to turn a 110 into a 127, as I understand that the 127’s stated 110 on the V5, but that’s getting into a pretty grey area, so I wouldn’t do it, plus you’d need one of the right year, presumably.

If you do a chassis swap make sure you cut out the vin number from the old one and either re weld it back on or keep it, you don’t need to inform anyone of this.

Would it not be easier to sell it and buy a rotten td5, then swap the chassis on that?



I bought this 110 for a pittance about 5 years ago - unfortunately rotten TD5’s seem few and far between.
Post #1047876 6th Oct 2024 12:46pm
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Retroanaconda



Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2651

Scotland 
You’re only changing the engine as far as they are concerned, everything else is the same or replacements of the same type.

Do not inform DVLA, you’ll be into a world of pain dealing with someone who has no idea. Folk have lost their vehicle IDs because of this.

Replacing a chassis and swapping an engine is no big deal, tens of thousands of Land Rovers have had it done with no issues. You are not trying to pass one vehicle off as another and are not trying to avoid tax so DVLA should have no interest in it.
Post #1047886 6th Oct 2024 2:48pm
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jst



Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8043

 2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey
Axle change and chassis change is just wear and tear no need rto notify.

Engine change yes. Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop
Post #1047915 6th Oct 2024 8:13pm
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Retroanaconda



Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2651

Scotland 
That’s a good point, I was thinking of the chassis/axle changes with regard to notifying the DVLA.

Engine number/capacity/details etc. should be notified but is easy to do. Guidance is on the DVLA website, you usually need to provide evidence such as a letter from a garage etc.
Post #1047919 6th Oct 2024 9:11pm
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diesel_jim



Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6093

United Kingdom 2006 Defender 110 Td5 SW Epsom Green
Retroanaconda wrote:
You’re only changing the engine as far as they are concerned, everything else is the same or replacements of the same type.

Do not inform DVLA, you’ll be into a world of pain dealing with someone who has no idea. Folk have lost their vehicle IDs because of this.

Replacing a chassis and swapping an engine is no big deal, tens of thousands of Land Rovers have had it done with no issues. You are not trying to pass one vehicle off as another and are not trying to avoid tax so DVLA should have no interest in it.


What he said..... The couple I've rebuilt and then contacted the DVLA ended in a world of paperwork, trips to Bristol IVA inspection, Q plates and other Censored .

The words of the inspector are still ringing in my ears all these years later....

"Next time you won't contact us, WILL YOU"

It was a mixture of question and statement!
Post #1048095 9th Oct 2024 6:23am
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