 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Gwyn Lewis / Suspension Recommendations |
 
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| Andrew95 Member Since: 27 Jul 2022 Location: Midlands Posts: 72   
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The base vehicle is a 300tdi 110 with pop-top / camper conversion, we have kept it very minimal / as light as possible, I expect it will be a similar weight as a roof tent, rack & drawer system combo (so nothing excessive).
It will probably upset a few people, but although it is a camper / overlanded we don't want to compromise its off-road ability - we enjoy using it for what its built for and want the most from the suspension. Current set up (Britpart SuperGaz +2 HD) was put on about 5 years ago when we had some chassis welding done, we didn't really know what we were doing at the time (and didn't have the budget), but in all honesty its worked really well. Quite stiff to start with, but once bedded in they have been great and get some good flex, smooth and stable on the road and never had any complaints. One thing to note is I upgraded the turrets to +2 turrets (my thought at the time was +2 shocks = the need for +2 turrets - I know that's wrong now, but you will see why I raise this). Cut forward, its getting a bit worn and I think due for an upgrade. We have had a few bits of Gwyn Lewis kit (props, mudguards, steering arms etc.), and both really like the company and the products. The obvious choice for us is the Explorer +3 kit (using +2 HD springs and the firm shocks), but the Challenge +5 kit is almost the same price - so that has become tempting too. I did briefly speak to them at Billing Show and was advised that the Challenge has worked fine on there 'road biased' truck with no detrimental effects and 'why wouldn't you' go for the 5 over the 3, especially where there is little price difference. The theory is there will be no difference in road handling as the spring / shock combination will be the same, jus the length of the shocks, which will only come into play off-road. Furthermore we are in the process of fitting a rear ATB diff (and to follow a front one), these require traction on each wheel to work and so the extra travel of the Challenge will help with that. With the Explorer it discusses the use of a front ARB (we have never had one fitted), but loosing the rear ARB (which we do have fitted) - this doesn't really bother me, but I would consider the Ex-Eng detachable ARB which might bring a bit more stiffness when on road. The challenge kit removed both front and rear ARB and there would be no point in fitting the Ex-Eng as it would limit articulation. The Explore also uses standard shock turrets on the front, as we have +2 fitted (as above) this on paper would reduce the upward articulation (which the challenge addresses by fitting +2 turrets). Although GL keeps standard radius arms for both kits and only adds his trailing arms with the challenge kit. I have 3 degree castor corrected radius and trailing arms which come with the Britpart kit, they works well (well they haven't caused any issues?), so I am either going to keep these and get them repainted or swap them out for Adrenalin 4x4 arms. |
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5th Aug 2024 12:44pm |
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| Andrew95 Member Since: 27 Jul 2022 Location: Midlands Posts: 72
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I am looking for feedback / advice from people who have used either of these set ups and how they have found them
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5th Aug 2024 1:10pm |
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| Chris86 Member Since: 15 Jul 2014 Location: South Yorks Posts: 789 
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Haven't directly used either set up.
Gwyn and his team are very switched on so its worth being guided by them. I'd personally avoid a lift if you can, very rare to see much benefit on an overland type vehicle- any unnecessary raising of the centre of gravity is inevitably going to be detrimental. Chris |
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5th Aug 2024 1:18pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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What sort of off roading will you be doing and have you found limitations of your current setup? Huge travel sounds appealing. But unless doing competition work or twist offs probably isn’t needed for most. In order to get the front end to flex you’ll need to do more work than just longer shocks. Look at the Gwyn Lewis website at his purpose built competition 90. There are some flex shocks and despite it being fitted with dislocation cones, it doesn’t dislocate the front suspension. Most of the flex is on the rear axle. Personally I’d probably not lift too high. Although a 110 does suffer with worse break over and departure angles than a 90. So a lift would help this. Lifts can mean less good prop angles and lots of flex will require wide angle props. How much do you want spend is a big question??? If you have a loaded up overlander you may miss the anti roll bar. And while I’m a huge fan of ATB’s. For an overland vehicle not limited by competition regs. I’d have to have a think if a full blown locker might make more sense. Maybe locker one end and ATB the other. |
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5th Aug 2024 5:31pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2643  
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Not a 110 i know but this is my 90 TD5 +5'' OME pin to pin dampers with Terrafirma +2'' medium duty springs.
No anti roll bars, and doesn't need them with my set up and there is very little body roll even at speed. What i wanted to show you in the difference in suspension drop between front and rear. The front wheel is actually off the ground and the tyre can be rotated. The rear is still on the ground and for my experiment at the time. NB my driveway tips down at the rear so even with the handbrake on, in gear, centre and rear lockers on and blocks of wood chocking the opposite wheels that was as far as i was going the lift the jack....not entirely mad 
I hope that helps in some way... 
 Click image to enlarge |
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5th Aug 2024 6:18pm |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5724 
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I ran the GL +5 dampers with a OME +1 springs and drove half the year with roof tent fitted and all the camping kit. I removed the ARBs for this and it never disappointed me, I loved it.
I now have a 110 and chose to run the same GL kit. On this Defender it doesn’t have ARBs so I didn’t have to remove them. It is truly fantastic off road and I do use it, a lot, the greatest part is when cross axeling it doesn’t lurch from onside to the other, it is just so controlled and keeps me with traction far beyond most others. All my Defenders are multi purpose. They are work vans, holiday vehicles, Green lane driving, off road play toy. His Explorer kit did appeal to me when buying, and this is what Gwyn runs on his daily drive Tdci, utility, but as you mentioned is designed to be used with ARB, and gives better road handling and is a cheaper kit as requires less other parts and work. In the end I decided to stay with the option I knew, and am pleased with my choice. Click image to enlarge |
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5th Aug 2024 7:56pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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Very interesting and thanks for the photo. Kind of backs up my statement above about making the front end flex is harder than just longer shocks! Tbh I rather like a lot of Gwyn’s stuff. I run his turrets on a couple of vehicles. Although the price of some bits is a bit beyond my budget. Here is my vehicle. I’m running +5” shocks and some soft and long springs. About the longest spring I know of off the shelf bar maybe Tomcat trialling springs, but with minimal lift. The front wheel is still on the ground and not maxed out yet in both photos. First is lifting the front of the vehicle for droop rather than flex. The second is lifting the rear wheel and flexing out the front axle. Tyres are 33” 33.10.50R15’s for reference. Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge The stock prop bound heavily and required a wide angle prop. I also had to swap out my extended front brake lines for longer ones. As you can see, despite the long spring it still dislocates. |
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5th Aug 2024 9:14pm |
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| MarkBrown Member Since: 03 Oct 2022 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 475  
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I put the explorer kit on the front of my 110 with no lift and can’t tell the difference apart from better shocks. I’ve taken it green laning but I honestly can’t tell, it seems no different to before. Rear to follow when funds allow. I didn’t go for the +5” kit as in theory the propshafts could bind under certain circumstances and I didn’t want to buy the super duper props too. Indeed for my use I wouldn’t need them anyway.
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5th Aug 2024 9:41pm |
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| Andrew95 Member Since: 27 Jul 2022 Location: Midlands Posts: 72
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That's great feedback thank you, I am the same as you as nice as it would be to have lots of different trucks, I can only have the one, so it needs to do everything! I briefly had my rear ARB off as I was changing the bushes and got the wrong ones. In all honesty I didn't notice any difference in how it drove, so not too fussed about removing it. I am fairly keen on the Ex-Eng ARB but +5 shocks would make it pointless, so the jury is out on that. The biggest limitation of any defender is being cross axled, even fitting the ATB diffs the traction / cross axle will limit them. So if I can get some extra flex from the suspension it should help that out too. |
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6th Aug 2024 9:28am |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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Flex is good. But there are limits. Too much flex and it’ll start to alter the wheelbase at full droop. Which will cause rear axle steering. Also a fully dislocated setup may well have limited extra ability.
Left foot braking can help with ATBs. But as said earlier, I’d be tempted by a locker in one axle. |
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6th Aug 2024 9:49am |
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| landy andy Member Since: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ware, Herts Posts: 5724
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A large part of me fitting this kit again was due to me having ATBs front and rear, and not full lockers as I have TC, this time. So I really wanted the wheels on the ground for as long as possible. I find I can just walk obstacles that others are having to attack with momentum and speed. Often getting comments or questions about it. I’m still running standard props, which is what Gwyn recommended to me. He said I would soon find out if I was going to have issues by killing UJs, which I haven’t. He commented that some of the Td5s had massive UJs and these tend to be fine with the articulation. I know the lesser kit would be better, and safer on the road, but I don’t do mega miles, and know it’s a Defender, on mud terrain tyres, and not a race car. |
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6th Aug 2024 10:35am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3421  
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With radius arms, the front axle acts like a massive antiroll bar, with only the flexibility in the axle radius arm bushes.
A while back I made a thread about possibility to chop off one of the radius arm bushes, perhaps not a good idea for a road going vehicle from legal perspective, but surely 3 points is infinitely flexible. Just think and compare a tripod and a 4 legged chair. https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83328.html 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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6th Aug 2024 12:38pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20441
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Thing is unless you fit portal axles, you’ve still got axle ground clearance to deal with.
The ARB’s limit articulation a lot, but they are designed to be beneficial on the road though, but there is not much compromise between the two. Quick release or quick removal Anti Roll Bars would be possible, but the factory fixings, they do have aren’t really suitable for anything other than removal once in a blue moon for maintenance as standard fit. D44 do a King suspension kit, I don’t know much about it nor does anyone seem to have one. D44 or Gywn Lewis would have a good market for springs I’d have thought both factory and lift sizes. I think Gwyn probably does the springs along with the kits he does, I’m not sure about D44. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 Last edited by custom90 on 6th Aug 2024 6:34pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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6th Aug 2024 4:34pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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Axle ground clearance is only part of it. But all vehicles have this…
There are however other points of the vehicle that also have ground clearance values and can be altered. |
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6th Aug 2024 4:50pm |
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