 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Puma ground lead to chassis / frame rail connection |
 
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17363   
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Simpler to replace the single continuous cable with the central lug with two separate cables if you're having problems. It is also in my opinion worth fitting at least one additional engine earth and one extra chassis earth.
Although I don't like the standard combined engine-to-chassis-to-battery lead arrangement it is generally pretty reliable and seldom gives problems. I ran a very hefty earth connection from my winch straight to the battery which provides a secondary chassis earth connection. It is very easy also to fit an additional engine-to-chassis connection. |
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18th Mar 2024 7:43pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20333
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BW Wrote: “ Although I don't like the standard combined engine-to-chassis-to-battery lead arrangement it is generally pretty reliable and seldom gives problems. ”
I agree, never had a problem which is why I copied it just with a larger gauge cable. I like that the conductor isn’t cut, the only downside is waterproofing, I’m just trying to make my mind up as to which waterproofing technique to settle on. Waterproofing problems are a rare issue to have, heard of it once before, but could just be a one off. Some kind of injection moulding would work, but it can easily not reach where it should or set before it fills all voids a bit like underground gel fill joints. I’d imagine LR just heatshrinked over it with adhesive heatshrink, it’s just possibly a slight leak of moisture ingress can get in between the bracket, cable sheath. I think a bit of extra hot glue should do the trick in that gap.  ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️ |
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18th Mar 2024 8:05pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17363
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None of your other cable crimps are waterproofed, and a good crimp should be fine if waterlogged unless corrosion sets in (which shouldn't happen with good cable and lugs). I don't really understand why you think you have a problem!
I don't actually remember any sleeving around the mid-cable lug and since it is an earth lead I don't see why you would need any. |
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18th Mar 2024 10:22pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20333
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There isn’t a problem, I just wanted to waterproof that connection (was just my preference even though it’s the ground lead) the bracket I have is tinned, as is the cable strands, it’s good stuff.
The LR offering is perfectly good, I never had any issue with it at all. My only reason for change was to upgrade the diameter for higher current load. (More worthwhile doing with a 2.4). Does anyone know if the LR offering was tinned strands? I did what I wanted to today at lunch time, as I mentioned above using the method I thought I’d go for, it was a bit tricky to get the shrink over and around the corner with the bracket, in the method I wanted, but, I did in the end and with the help of proper heat gun afterwards and hot glue gun all is well with that. 
The hot glue underneath, followed by the heat gun and adhesive on the heatshrink amalgamated together in one bond sealing it all up nicely. 
I’m thinking about what connection methods to use on the transfer box ground stud now, I’ve got three connections one there, I won’t need any more. Currently have the starter first, then the next back to back and the 3rd to the side so it fits. I can either get an adaptor for one connection on the stud, and three on the adaptor, or I was thinking possibly two half nuts, then the full full nut. All torqued to spec. I’m assuming it’s too hot there for a nyloc nut nearest the end, but a tiny bit of Loctite 222 would be okay just a little. IIRC, the nut and thread on there is M10 x 1.25 thread pitch. I shall have to check. I do know it’s 45NM Torque on there. I am thinking if I used a couple of half nuts that would reduce the length of the thread needed to be used and less stress on it, but also give just enough room to fit the lugs inline rather than the two back to back and the last offset. I prefer them up there, rather than on the chassis / frame rail as they are more out of the way. I tend to think an adaptor would just be a waste of money. Naturally the battery ground goes on first, with nearest contact to the transfer box housing. I tend to use a little bit of Loctite 222, just a tiny bit of threads these days on top of using the correct torque as I think over time these fixings loosen. And the gearbox and transmission inc transfer box have signs in at vibrations and thermal heating and cooling. It’s like the small stud on the rear lighting loom the opposite side, I had that come loose twice, it comes off when a clutch is replaced but was always refitted and torqued properly but would still come loose over time. Just a drip of that low strength Loctite 222, on the threads and put in to spec and I’ve not had a problem since. Mind you, I don’t care much for stronger thread lockers a lot of them can cause far more problems than they are worth! The 222 is good for small fixings as well, I use it all the time in very small qualities and stops things working loose especially small fixings. ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️ |
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19th Mar 2024 3:38pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17363
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You can always fit more than one lead to more than one earth point, that has the benefit that if something comes off you won't melt the handbrake cable or ignite the vehicle.
It would never, I have to say, even occur to me to use a torque wrench for that kind of thing. There are plenty of all-metal stiff nuts available such as Aerotight, Philidas, Binx, Flexloc, Cleveloc, Stover, Snep, Vargal, Nord-Lock and Pal (although I wouldn't recommend any of the the last three in this case) as well as centre locking nuts many of which include flange nut options, if you want a stiff nut that doesn't involve a nylon insert. Aerotight and Stover nuts are available in brass which is probably better for an electrical connection. |
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19th Mar 2024 6:10pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20333
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Thank you for the suggestions. ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️ |
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19th Mar 2024 6:48pm |
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| MadTom Member Since: 10 Sep 2013 Location: Olomouc Posts: 616  
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Two year ago during our trip to Turkey Disco2 started to loose some battery voltage. Problem was in the factory made crimp terminal (eye) on cable between alternator and main fuse box. The cable eye was impossible to open (thick material), but contact was poor resulting in 0,5 V voltage drop just in this crimped connection. On the tip I made my best soldering over the crimp - it was much better. Even back home, I was not able to open the cripm, I had to cut it to see, what is inside. It looked normal. New cable with new crimped eye and volatage drop was les than 0,01 V. For covering just heatschring tube with glue inside. No need to make it waterproof, beter is just cover in to have some mechanical support and let water run out. From my experience, IP68 rated connector means, they are water tight, so water gets inside and stays there much longer, than in open connectors. Good crimp is tight enough, to protect wires inside. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo
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20th Mar 2024 11:45am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20333
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Well it can always be reversed, the adhesive heatshink I used is double wall and semi translucent as well, so if there was any internal leakage it can always come off if needed.
I have a really nice crimp on there so I’m happy with its security. I shall be having a look at the brass nuts for the transfer box soon, I did some more research on the parts from LR and the thread is M10, but the pitch is 1.5 coarse, NOT 1.25 pitch as I assumed before, so I’m glad I checked that out. I’d have liked some tinned copper nuts in that size, for conductivity they’d be great, but they are a soft metal really and in that area I think would be very exposed and the thermally stressed as well. So I think BW is right that brass is a better option for practicality and has a bit better conductivity than other basic options. You certainly can get some voltage drop, and high resistance issues. There should be an improvement in the amount of temporary voltage drop on cold cranking, I’m hoping so anyway, but due to many variable factors it’s hard to tell categorically, especially depending on how long it’s sat idle, voltage at point of cranking, ambient temp etc. The new cable I’m working on has a resistance of 0 Ohms, on all points tested as it should be. When I get the original out I can test that an see what that that checks out at, being a short section though it may well be the same or very close, but that’s not under load. I was looking at the parts diagram of the transfer box stud in depth last night. I see that the threaded stud is available on its own as a replacement if anyone needed one. There is a spring washer, then a flanged nut. On mine this is the arrangement currently; the stud in the T box, then I assume a spring washer, then the flanged genuine nut. Then the battery ground connection, extra two lugs and then a full nut, the latter I think is a brass one securing that. I presume the flanged nut butt against the transfer box is meant to be there to secure the threaded stud as a locking nut. As the arrangement on there I want to change over to three lugs, I’d like to add a bit of separation between the lugs so that I don’t have to have two back to back and one off set. Then you can nicely fit some use some zip tie tricks so they don’t rub. There is only so much room on the stud, so I’ll try and get some half and full nuts to see what suits best. Much preferred to me than having two lugs back, and one off set, as they are more prone to get loose in my opinion. I’ll report back soon, effect on the starter motor and voltage will be limited if any as I have to fit the rest yet on the live side. As a lot of you probably know, LR upgraded the gauge of the main battery cables on 2.2 Pumas. Where 2.4’s had slightly smaller gauge. What I have fitted is an upgrade on even what a 2.2 has, copper these days isn’t cheap! ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️ |
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20th Mar 2024 6:49pm |
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| MadTom Member Since: 10 Sep 2013 Location: Olomouc Posts: 616
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No need for copper or brass nut if you have steel or stainless bolt.
You can check quality of your cables and crimped terminals. With clamp meter measuren current through cable and with voltmeter and needle probes measure voltage drops. On proper crimp, it will be nearly zero difference between crimped eye and cable. Cable has some resistance, not zero. You can compare measured voltage drop on cable length with cable resistance. You need several Amps of current to get big enough voltage drop for good measurement. "Drobek" = The Small One - Discovery 2, "Blufínek" = The Blue Thing - Defender 130, and for me at least Ford Mondeo |
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20th Mar 2024 8:37pm |
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