 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Not cranking after a blown fuse.. Immobilizer? (Sorted) |
 
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20430  
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Check the battery clamps and grounding, any issue there and that will create the “click” and various issues.
Even if everything visually looks okay, it can be loose and cause significantly high impedance. It’s what I had once when I had a battery clamp loose, but any other component in the main primary power lines can do it. Check the mega fuse on the live battery clamp too. If nothing else it is worth checking, sometimes the simple things are at fault and also check the main ground to transmission. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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12th Mar 2024 1:13pm |
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| Waka56 Member Since: 08 Nov 2023 Location: Hamburg Posts: 162 
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Okey, thanks for all the infos. I'll do the sync again so that I can rule it out, but for me, if the red light being off means not immobilized, then it's not my problem. I'll check some lose connectors again. I heard 2-3 relays but I think they all happened before the key in cranking position. (Never really heard them before, but the seats and cover being pulled off, it's quite easy to hear). I'll check tonight for the starter relay. Making my Defender great again. (Or trying to at least xD)
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12th Mar 2024 1:24pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20430
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There is the crank position sensor and ignition, but see if everything else is secure and tight first. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
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12th Mar 2024 2:09pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17432 
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A failed crankshaft position sensor (or for that matter camshaft position sensor) won't stop the engine from cranking but will stop it from firing.
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12th Mar 2024 2:29pm |
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| Waka56 Member Since: 08 Nov 2023 Location: Hamburg Posts: 162
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Funny thing is, before I changed the F8 fuse, the car would crank but not start. Maybe I touched some relays also at the same time before I tried starting it again. Making my Defender great again. (Or trying to at least xD)
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12th Mar 2024 3:39pm |
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| macfrank Member Since: 05 Nov 2015 Location: somewhere in the north Posts: 1081 
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As they say in the medical sector: you can have both fleas and lice at the same time
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12th Mar 2024 5:03pm |
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| Waka56 Member Since: 08 Nov 2023 Location: Hamburg Posts: 162
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Well, I hear a few relays going when I go on the position where the glow plug warm up, then when crank I hear no relay anymore, just a "click" coming from the dash. I tried without the relay, makes zero difference. I also swapped with main relay (same one, 2 & 3 relays under the seat), also no difference. Looks like the info does not make it to the relay. The battery is now at 11.9, should still be strong enough for at least attempting to crank or?
I also tried your trick Steve, seems like I already was synced. I will charge the battery to rule that out to, under 12 is never good. Also bought new fob batteries. Making my Defender great again. (Or trying to at least xD) |
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13th Mar 2024 8:20am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20430
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Relay click normally means the relay is working.
Glad that the sync works, at least you can rule that out. I think it may be the case of a failed starter motor, is the ground on the transfer box secure? As BW mentioned, there is either a break somewhere or a failure and as you seen to be finding these doesn’t appear to be any issues with fuses or breaks in the circuits then it may be the starter that has failed. These things can just happen, water gets in the winding dirt, a slight voltage spike or voltage drop lower than typical etc. My combi drill battery stopped working the other day, good service life but it just happens. Sometimes copper windings crack or break off, a slight knock displaces something. You really should check for power at the starter though that it is present at the starter stud that’s incoming from the battery. If that’s present, and there isn’t hardly any voltage drop on cranking there then I’d say replace the starter. If it’s old, then it’s worth doing anyway. Good luck.  $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
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13th Mar 2024 1:32pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20430
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 Click image to enlarge Maybe helpful  $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
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13th Mar 2024 1:34pm |
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| Waka56 Member Since: 08 Nov 2023 Location: Hamburg Posts: 162
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I did not have much bills of what has been done by the previous owner, but starter is less than 2 years old. I am not ruling it out just yet, but it was working minutes before I start playing around the relays and fuses. Making my Defender great again. (Or trying to at least xD) |
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13th Mar 2024 1:43pm |
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| Waka56 Member Since: 08 Nov 2023 Location: Hamburg Posts: 162
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Theoretically, battery is way too low. But in all my previous vehicles the starter would try to go until the battery is fully dead. Making my Defender great again. (Or trying to at least xD) |
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13th Mar 2024 1:44pm |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 2027
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As a result of many attempted starts (the glow plugs and starter do draw a lot of charge) It does now seem that your battery, at 11.9V, is too discharged to power the starter motor.
So I expect once it’s recharged it will crank. However that may just put you back to where you were, crank but not start. To check that’s not main battery related , if you have another vehicle, connect jump leads to the recharged battery as you would to jump start and then attempt to start your defender. If it still cranks but not starts then you have discounted the main battery as the issue. Ps, during my warranty period a main dealer did not tighten my negative battery terminal clamp correctly, by feel it was ok but not not sufficiently down on the battery post, this resulted in the same issue, relays clicking but no starter, so not having good volts and charge can result in no starter movement at all. |
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13th Mar 2024 2:00pm |
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| Waka56 Member Since: 08 Nov 2023 Location: Hamburg Posts: 162
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I'll recharge indeed. But my last attempts were with the battery above 12.3v. maybe just disconnect/reconnect would be enough, haha good old trick that works with computers 😂
I did not insist on the starter because my car started the whole winter as soon as I cranked it. For me (all ifs and maybes) the problem is elsewhere. Edit: And I would love to admit that I was wrong tomorrow 
Edit 2: I am working so my answers are sometimes quite short. Lemme come back to what I said. Before I changed the fuse(s) the temperature gauge was in the red, the glow plug would not show, and the car would only crank, but not start. After I fixed those, everything came back to normal on the dash, but the car would just not even crank anymore. This happened after I swapped the fuse F8 with a new one (it was not even blown) and touched the relays. Until then I still had 12.3v on the battery. I guess I got it slowly down to 11.9 with the glowplugs and all the attempts closing opening the doors and all. Thanks anyone that is helping
If you read that black wolf, for you it could still be the immobilizer even if the red light on the dash stops blinking? What are the giveaways for a car that is immobilized (except for it not starting haha) Also, it comes back to me know the car always closes itself after maximum a couple of minutes once opened. I think it only happened before if I did not have the key in the ingnition. Edit3: damn, done some quick research on defender closing itself, it's apparently an issue more than a function haha. Well, I'll have a look at that separately. Making my Defender great again. (Or trying to at least xD) |
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13th Mar 2024 2:57pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17432
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The starter relay energisation coil is supplied with power from the ignition switch when the key is turned to the "crank" position but the coil is earthed through the ECM. This serves two purposes: firstly it enables the ECM to de-power the starter motor as soon as an "engine running" signal is detected, thereby protecting the starter if you don't release the key, and I think it is also used to allow the ECM to inhibit the operation of the starter when the immobiliser is active - to the best of my recollection an immobilised engine won't crank, and it also won't run if it is cranked by other means (eg hotwiring the starter or towing).
One of the first checks I would therefore be making is to see if you are getting a satisfactory output on the wire from the starter relay to the starter solenoid. If you are, there fault with the starter. If you are not, there is a fault with the circuitry that controls the starter relay. Another easy test is to bridge the contacts of the starter relay (link terminals 30 and 87, ideally with a push-button switch). If with the ignition on the engine then cranks, there is no fault with the starter. With this sort of "puma not starting" fault there are many possible causes and all you can really do is some very methodical testing armed with the Electrical Wiring manual to make sure that power appears at the expected place under the right circumstances. It is time-consuming rather than difficult, but requires the application of logic. Sadly these are amongst the hardest faults to diagnose remotely. |
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13th Mar 2024 4:27pm |
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