 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > 2.4 tdci Engine break in |
 
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 511  
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Not that I've got enough experience in this to give advice, but I think you would need to say exactly what you mean by rebuilt..
Have you had bores machined, crankshaft reground with the associated oversize pistons etc... Or simply stripped checked cleaned and rebuilt.. Maybe just a head job?? There are not many go to the bother of getting such work done these days, and if you have the shop should give you an idea of what running in would be best.. Those are the thoughts that go through my mind reading your post.. |
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29th Oct 2023 8:27pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3639 
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Not scientific but my view is based on lots of rebuilt engines and a couple of new ones all of which have led long and healthy lives.
If it was a new engine built in clinical conditions. Dont load/labour the engine Dont use high revs Slowly build up the revs and load as you put mileage on it After about 1000 miles change the oil and then treat it as normal If it was built in a less than impeccable facility Run the engine unloaded upto temperature at about 1200-1500 rpm varying the throttle Dont load/labour the engine Dont use high revs Change the oil after initially running it up-to temperature Dont load/labour the engine Dont use high revs Slowly build up the revs and load as you put mileage on it After about 1000 miles change the oil and filter and treat it as normal. Always allow your engine to idle before switching off for about 15 seconds, always allow to idle for about 15 seconds before driving off. Also worth knowing a standard 2.4 tdci gets 100% throttle at 25% pedal travel in high range. use good oil at all stages (2.4 TDCI likes Castrol Magnatec of the correct grade) DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS, I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy Last edited by LR90XS2011 on 30th Oct 2023 12:44pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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30th Oct 2023 8:00am |
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| MK Member Since: 28 Aug 2008 Location: Santiago Posts: 2412  
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Break in oil is designed to allow wear and seal the piston rings against the cylinder wall, whereas "normal" oil prevent this to happen. But, manufacturers do not use these oils....... Puma 110" SW
............................................................. Earth first. Other planets later |
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30th Oct 2023 10:52am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17353 
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I'm not sure that I understand this remark! If this was the case, pressing the pedal beyond the 25% point in high range shouldn't have the slightest effect, yet on my Defender it certainly does. Plus there is the small detail that the engine doesn't actually have a throttle at all, all the magic is done with fuel, timing, and boost controls. Could you perhaps expand on this? |
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30th Oct 2023 2:28pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3639
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Hi Blackwolf
picked it up on here on one of the threads, where it was stated 25% accelerator pedal movement covers 100% of possible requested power in high range. (appreciate a diesel doesn't have a throttle as such and I should have used a different term). I have tested this on mine at it is certainly the case once its part way down the rest of the travel makes no detectable difference at all to the engine, easing off from foot to the floor again makes no difference until the last part of the accelerator pedal travel. In low range it behaves totally differently with every part of the travel effecting the requested power . Note I have got a mild tune on mine. DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS, I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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30th Oct 2023 2:42pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3410  
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On the throttle percentage application I think there might be some confusion.
On old, conventional diesels, the go fast pedal is actually controlling a governor. The governor controls the speed of the engine and once the governor speed is reached, it will limit the fuel such that the speed does not keep increasing. I think this is where the 25% thing is coming from - that is 25% governor at no load is already max speed of an engine. However, under load, a conventional diesel will behave differently as more difficult to reach the governor speed, so the go fast pedal will continue increasing fuel as long as the governor speed is not reached. I assume a modern computer controlled engine will behave very similarly, just computer controlled rather than mechanically controlled. But stand to be corrected. Worse thing you can do to a diesel, especially during break is is to let it idle without load. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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30th Oct 2023 5:07pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 511
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I also was not sure what the remarks about the throttle been 100% at 25% accelerator movement..
the 2.2 tdci does have an electronically controlled throttle body , or so ive read...some diesels use them if they are fitted with egr and they are said to aid better shut down, but a lot of diesels don't have one..they like a free and excess air flow...so it makes sense for the flap to open fully quickly.. I took the comment to mean that that flap would be fully open at 25%accelerator movement..it seems feasible to me that that could be the case ..it doesn't mean that continued accelerator movement would have no response as the fueling would still be increased...and the boost pressure would still rise ... thats the way I took it anyway...but happy to be told differently  |
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30th Oct 2023 5:32pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17353
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The 2.4 does not have the throttle body and has no airflow moderation. All of the engine response is determined by driver demand from the pedal but how the ECM determines what to do in response to that demand will depend on some black magic algorithm which takes into account all the other parameters available to the ECM. Flooring the pedal when you're going up a hill may well have a different effect to flooring it on the flat because the increased engine power has a different effect and hence different feedback.
I can accept that under some conditions only the first 25% of pedal movement results in any discernible effect, but I thing it is very unlikely that nothing is happening. Incidentally throttle bodies were traditionally fitted to diesels to all a vacuum to be created in the inlet manifold to power a brake servo. Then that became unnecessary and they fell out of fashion, now they're back to further degrade your engine performance on the grounds of emissions! |
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30th Oct 2023 5:50pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 511
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well ive never come across a diesel engine that uses a throttle to create a vacuum to operate a servo...diesels just don't work that way ..the last thing they need is a vacuum created in the inlet manifold when under load...the throttle body on a diesel is there to aid the egr system, when the engine is not under load, and I believe it can aid a smoother shut down
but I was just trying to understand the comment about the accelerator and throttle body...and still think that its reasonable to assume that where fitted then its open fully as early as possible... and I didn't suggest nothing was happening over the remainder of the accelerator movement...I mentioned fuelling and boost I have the 2,2l which does have a throttle body, so thats what I relate to and I thought possibly where the original comment had come from |
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30th Oct 2023 6:17pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3410
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Indeed, the 2.2 has a throttle body. AFAIK, restricting air increases EGT, which is good for the DPF, but not for the rest of the engine
I never heard of an old diesel with a throttle body, but my knowledge only goes to old 60s Perkins and BMC motors. However exhaust brakes are very common on large truck engines, and they look similar to throttle bodies. However, they restrict the exhaust, creating another 'compression' stroke, and hence increased engine braking. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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30th Oct 2023 6:47pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17353
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Quite by chance I stumbled across an Ebay listing for the throttle body for a Land-Rover 2286cc diesel engine today and thought of this thread. The 2286cc diesel was fitted with this when a brake servo was fitted in order to create the vacuum needed for the servo. Nowadays of course clever alternatives such as vacuum pumps on the alternator (optimised to leak oil into the alternator and destroy it, as used on the TD5) or discrete mechanical pumps (optimised to spray oil all over the underside of the bonnet, as used on the Puma), and even electric vacuum pumps are used, but none of these had been invented back then. The listing is here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264292511157 however since the listing is ephemeral I have "borrowed" some of the photos for educational purposes:  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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16th Feb 2024 5:25pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20300
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25% throttle sounds a bit like limp mode enabled, of which power is significantly cut of which there is some power then no more.
I remember when I had it due to overboost, you could put the throttle to 100% and nothing more than a little power, but, that was because it was limp mode. If it wasn’t you’d be off like a rocket! Once reset back to normal, the TDCi has a nice torque curve. The graph shows you the torque curve, on a rolling road test and can tell you the peak power band is. ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️ |
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16th Feb 2024 5:36pm |
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| andy63 Member Since: 30 Jun 2023 Location: north east Posts: 511
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Well once again I'll have to apologise blackwolf👍.. I have never come across this as I said before.. On further thought I suppose with a vacuum tank to act as a buffer, a throttle in the manifold of a diesel would be capable at times of providing a vacuum at times which could be stored... But I can see why it moved on to a separate source to provide the necessary vacuum👍.. |
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17th Feb 2024 8:27am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17353
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No need to apologise, life is really just a continual learning experience.
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17th Feb 2024 8:57am |
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