 | Home > Technical > Running lights not working after LED upgrade |
 
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20033  
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I think they have accidentally sent you the wrong relay, and you can have LED side repeaters also, there isn’t a resistance issue with that, that I’m aware of.
The relay you should have is 4 pin if memory serves me well, and it should have a knob on it that you can adjust the indicator / flasher speed. Like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234741437619?ep...BMlI_c265j Welcome to Defender2, you will find the club forum a friendly and welcoming place, with a wealth of knowledge to gain. 
Do you have any pictures of your 90? If so we would love to see it. Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧 |
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4th Feb 2024 9:23pm |
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| Newbie Member Since: 04 Oct 2023 Location: Maryland Posts: 14 
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Thank you very much for the welcoming and informative reply! So that relay does, in fact, impact the running lights?
Here she is:  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge More questions will undoubtedly come up, so I'll surely rely on the knowledge base on this forum. And, perhaps in time, I'll learn enough to be able to assist others. Thanks again! |
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4th Feb 2024 11:36pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20033
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Very nice.
Which lights do you mean by running lights? Only in GB, we probably call them something different like sidelights here compared to y’all in the States. The indicators / flashers should only be affected by the Relay, nothing to do with headlights or sidelights. If there is something like that, going on it could be a ground issue on shared circuits and LED’s are more sensitive to that. I’m not entirely sure where the grounding points are on yours, but take a look at the smaller grounding points for the rear loom on the side of the Transfer box. There are some known grounding fixing studs / bolts that can work a little loose, and are a common ground for the exterior lighting. Vibration from the Trans can be a common issue with them, and that can cause grounding issues for more than one circuit as they are shared for some lighting. If you find one that is loose, a low strength thread locker like Loctite 222 will be ideal to stop it happening again, but be weak enough to allow easy disassembly due to its low break away torque when removing. It could be a bit of a long shot but worth checking, as the main battery ground isn’t the only one there are a few. This one I’ve described above caused issues with mine of a similar nature to what you’ve mentioned. You can try adding a temporary additional ground as well, and see if that corrects it to identify it. Either way, she looks awesome hope you enjoy it.  Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧 |
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5th Feb 2024 12:48am |
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| Newbie Member Since: 04 Oct 2023 Location: Maryland Posts: 14
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Thank you again for the detailed reply and your thoughts, Steve. I'm not sure I follow all of them, but will do what I can to figure things out. And, to be sure, I'm referring to these lights specifically, and how they don't illuminate when the headlights are on:
Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge Thanks once again. - Jim |
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6th Feb 2024 2:38am |
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| sasdiscos Member Since: 22 Jul 2023 Location: UK Posts: 148 
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Do you have a multi meter? Worth checking for voltage.
Also, put the standard bulb back in if you don’t have a meter and check the fuse. Led lights are polarity sensitive so may only work if installed the correct way round. Steve. |
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6th Feb 2024 8:22am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17192 
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USA "running lights" = UK "side and tail lights". No relays involved. |
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6th Feb 2024 9:33am |
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| Newbie Member Since: 04 Oct 2023 Location: Maryland Posts: 14
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Quite right, blackwolf.
Yes, sasdiscos, I have a suspicion that I wired my tail lights incorrectly. So while they work as break lights, they do not illuminate when the headlights are on. So I'm going to dig into that this weekend. And, yes, the fuses are all good. Thanks very much, everyone! |
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8th Feb 2024 2:32am |
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| Newbie Member Since: 04 Oct 2023 Location: Maryland Posts: 14
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Good afternoon, everyone. I'm afraid I'm back.
To start, my brake lights work, but my running (side and tail) lights don't. My fuses are good. When I started changing over my lights from incandescent to LED, I started at the front and worked my way to the rear. With the factory relay in place, I was able to confirm that the new front running (side) lights were working when the headlights were on. I checked these lights again when I replaced the rear turn signals and they were still working. After installing the new brake/tail lights, however, the front running lights were no longer working and neither were the tail lights (apart from working as brake lights). I thought it may have been an issue caused by the original relay so I installed the new, LED-style relay, but it made no difference. I've since learned from blackwolf that running lights are not impacted by relays, so I figured I must have wired the tail lights incorrectly. I'm not that versed with a multimeter, so I went through the four combinations of red-black-green connections and still have nothing. So if this is a polarity issue, I think I've checked every wiring permutation. And my fuses are still good. If the thinking is that I have a grounding issue - even though my front running/side lights worked at one point during this process - that's fine... I just don't know how to check that. I wouldn't know a grounding point if I saw it, don't know where to find the rear loom, etc. I've also tossed the incandescent bulb holders, so I don't have the ability to easily convert back. I know my automotive knowledge is extremely limited, but I honestly thought swapping incandescents for LED's would have been as straightforward an exercise as it gets with these vehicles. I'm now stuck only being able to drive during daylights hours. I can take it to my mechanic to have him sleuth the problem, but I'd like to avoid that if possible. If anyone has any thoughts on what I - an admitted novice - can do to try to resolve this, I would certainly welcome your thoughts. Thanks once again. - Jim |
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10th Feb 2024 6:47pm |
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| sasdiscos Member Since: 22 Jul 2023 Location: UK Posts: 148
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Do the lamps have a wire colour diagram?
I know on the ones I just fitted, white was earth. I expected it to be black but this was the tail light and red was the brake light. |
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10th Feb 2024 9:01pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20033
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You could try a new switch for the sidelight / dipped, as that is what switches on your sidelights and tail.
But bear in mind, that if you do that if it’s a ground problem then it still won’t cure it. It seems you do have a suitable ground, or the brake light wouldn’t work at all which is separate. Sometimes the light switches, the contacts get hot and damaged over time, and could be high resistance contacts which the incandescent lights overcome due to the fact they draw far higher current. LEDS are sensitive to high resistance, such as poor contacts, poor grounding. Low voltage due to the above, or voltage fluctuations. If you would like to learn how to use a Multimeter YouTube is ideal, voltage test and continuity test is the most common things to learn and there are many how to videos on there. I’d tend to think you have a suitable ground, to get the brake lights to work at all. So I’d tend to lean towards sidelights and dipped switch replacement. The ground is on the side of the transmission two smaller gauge wires (black) with an eye on each, mounted on a bolt. You can remove and clean that if it’s loose it isn’t the main ground which is a large gauge single cable. If you do remove that bolt, then see low strength loctite such as 222 a tiny bit of that is ideal or it will be coming loose again. Bearing in mind these are just ideas, no guarantee it is the fault. That’s why multimeters are used to trace where the fault actually is. Diesel$ Live$ Matter. ⛽️🛢️👨🔧🧰⚙️ RED, WHITE & BOOST! 🇬🇧 |
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10th Feb 2024 11:43pm |
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| sasdiscos Member Since: 22 Jul 2023 Location: UK Posts: 148
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Before throwing any money at it, plug the old lights back in to check. If they work you know your lights or new wiring configuration is incorrect. If they don’t then you need to start working backwards. The lighting is a very simple setup.
I suggest you source a Haynes manual. A good way for a beginner spannerer to start learning about cars. They also have all the wiring diagrams for the early defenders. Steve |
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11th Feb 2024 6:51am |
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| Newbie Member Since: 04 Oct 2023 Location: Maryland Posts: 14
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I'm afraid it did not come with a wiring diagram. Good thinking though. |
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11th Feb 2024 5:59pm |
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| Newbie Member Since: 04 Oct 2023 Location: Maryland Posts: 14
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Thanks for all of this, Steve. I'll explore the ground situation a bit more before pulling the trigger on the replacement switch. Do you think it's possible that the switch could be bad if I still have control over the headlights themselves? Because I do. |
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11th Feb 2024 6:02pm |
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| Newbie Member Since: 04 Oct 2023 Location: Maryland Posts: 14
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I'm afraid I cannibalized the sockets and just retained the white plastic housings. So the old housings are mounted as before and the new lights are mounted to them. The incandescent sockets were removed in order to do this. Thank you for the Haynes recommendation. I'll track one down and add it to the growing library. I do have the original manual, though, and am slowly familiarizing myself with the wiring diagram leaflet in it. |
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11th Feb 2024 6:10pm |
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