 | Home > Off Topic > Power line and weather warning |
 
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20444  
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With the current and upcoming weather conditions always bear in mind the following (see link below) if ever such a situation should occur:
https://www.foxweather.com/weather-news/3-...-ice-storm Lots of Byways, rural roads, and more, cross the paths of HV lines, you just never know with trees that are unstable, possible toppled telegraph poles or damage to lines due to gale force wind, ice, snow or fallen trees. A very sad incident that has happened there, but, could have highly likely have had a safe and positive outcome, should they have remained in the vehicle.  No Guts, No Glory.
🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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18th Jan 2024 7:18pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20444
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 You just never know can be anywhere, a similar incident happened over here in GB a few months back with a celebrity I think it was and another member of the public but they were safe luckily but was on a main road.
But the risk with Byways, ORPA’s and rural isolated roads, are even more of a risk as not many people are out and about, and Defender owners as we more likely to be in these places, other 4wd owners, and 4x4 response teams are much more likely to encounter this situation too. Sometimes, Byways go though woodland where there is forestry cuttings with cables going across, you may not even hardly see them. Worth thinking about at least, last year near me one partially came down over a public road. People wouldn’t stop trying to drive under it, some even had ideas of trying to take the tree branch off of it.   No Guts, No Glory.
🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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18th Jan 2024 7:35pm |
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| Ianb Member Since: 25 Oct 2023 Location: Devon Posts: 405 
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Hmmm, thanks for posting this, but also questions if anyone knows the answers too. With a defender having a lot of exposed metal inside, is it safe to touch the inside? I know some really high voltage can create power arcs where elec travels through the air (right terminology?), but maybe one is stuffed in that situation. But is it safe to assume you're somewhat safe if the car is on its rubber shoes in most situations? The Yeti - 110 Camper https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic90308.html
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@YetitheDefender Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/yetithedefender/ |
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19th Jan 2024 1:47am |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1084  
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Yes you would be 100% safe. It's called a Faraday cage. The electricity would travel over the outside, although it would have to be very high voltage, like a lightening strike, to jump the bridge between the car and the ground.
People getting out or outsiders reaching for the car are obviously at risk. |
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19th Jan 2024 2:45am |
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| discomog Member Since: 09 May 2015 Location: Notts/Lincs Border Posts: 2529 
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I remember this from Top Gear some 15 years ago.
Defender 90XS SW Mini Countryman Cooper S Morgan Plus 8 |
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19th Jan 2024 8:42am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443 
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At about 5AM on the morning of the great storm of 1987 I was attempting to drive to work in the Chilterns and found the road I was on was blocked by a downed power line. It was very spectacular because it was whipping around in the gale arcing to the ground and anything else it touched (I was surprised that no protection mechanism had tripped it out, but the fireworks display made it very clear that it hadn't). Needless to say I kept well clear and went an alternative route!
My usual journey to work in those days took about 40 mins. On that morning it took over 5 hours, and when I finally made it I found that we had over 200 trees down on site. Memorable. |
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19th Jan 2024 9:47am |
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| RFT Member Since: 13 Nov 2010 Location: Cheshire Posts: 680 
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All good crane, excavator, mewp training courses address the issue of power lines the simple advice is stay put in machine and wait until power company arrive and assure you it is dead, they will normally bulldog clip the conductors together to prove isolation very close to the vehicle.
Only situation when leaving vehicle should be considered is fire or other direct life threat and then the biggest single leap of your life without reaching forward with arms or spreading legs should be attempted, imagine how hard it must be to leap like that unless you are an Olympic high diver🥲 130 Puma HCPU with an Artica 240LR Demountable Camper |
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19th Jan 2024 10:27pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20444
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Yes, that is true, sometimes fire takes hold and that’s then a terrifying situation.
Some tractors have brought down a few by accident before. I see to remember you are supposed to keep legs together and hop… But, considering the arc and the risk involved with that, and unless the vehicle has significant height and you didn’t break some bones in the process you may be lucky. And then it depends on the power of the lines. I wonder what distance an arc of conductivity distance it can reach? Unfortunately, living things are very conductive, and that of course includes us! I expect it’s the tyres which would catch fire, or blowout due to heat despite being rubber AC power of that voltage would probably pass current especially if wet, then there is the steel banding inside the tyres. Those storms from 1988 were very intense, just a little before my time but to this day there was woodlands my area that were completely flattened in those storms. What wind speed was that up to? No Guts, No Glory. 🇬🇧🏴🏴🏴🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪 |
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19th Jan 2024 11:01pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443
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The fastest recorded gust in 1987 in the UK was 120mph near Shoreham. France recorded 135mph.
As I recall, in dry air a 400kV line in dry air can arc up to about a.foot, however air is never dry and moisture greatly extends this. I believe the safe working distance from a 400kV line is considered by HSE to be 30m, and most bodies warn that there can be hazards to health from EMF up to about 300m. It would.be exceptional to find a downed 400kV line though. For the avoidance of doubt the only "advice" in this post is to assume all power lines are live and don't go anywhere near them. Last edited by blackwolf on 20th Jan 2024 9:58am. Edited 1 time in total |
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20th Jan 2024 8:14am |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2656 
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I would respectfully suggest that anyone working near power lines looks for guidance from the official sources rather than a Land Rover forum, however well intentioned.
Your industry will likely have more specific guidance but HSE GS6 is a good place to start: https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/gs6.pdf |
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20th Jan 2024 8:26am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443
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I wasn't giving advice and I am sure that those here are intelligent enough to realise that! I was merely trying to give an indicative answer to Steve's question.
Any form of power line should be considered lethal and given a wide berth unless you want to prove that Darwin wasn't so far off the mark. Somewhere I have a photo of a "yout" displaying his manliness by swinging off the OHLE on the WCML. He'd jumped off an overline footbridge structure and caught the 11kV conductor, and was swinging quite happily and safe from electrocution as long as he didn't touch or come close to a grounded object. Not so safe from trains, though, since the WCML was open to traffic at the time. The scariest thought is that unless he managed to despatch himself subsequently with further stupidity, he's probably a father or even grandfather by now. What chance for the second- and third-generation stupid? |
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20th Jan 2024 9:46am |
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| Bowbearer Member Since: 12 Aug 2022 Location: Norfolk Posts: 178 
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Black wolf raises a good point. If it is wet then the ark can jump through damp air.
When I was a tree surgeon we wouldn’t work within 10 meters of lines in wet weather, learnt from experience. The Electric companies have guidance for working near lines. The biggest killer is if the line is tripped it gets turned off. But they turn it on again to test if it is alright. So make sure you treat “dead” lines with the same respect. Luckily never seen anyone electrocuted whilst working. |
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20th Jan 2024 9:52am |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3511 
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All good advice.
I had an issue in an old job with cables crossing a hill where a private roadway had been built. The HV cables looked way too low to allow lorries to pass under. I found there was actually very little information about minimum distances from HV lines. I know there are regulations of minimum distances where they cross public roads, but as with most things metal, in summer they expand and droop. I drive up the A1 a bit there are quite a lot of HV cables passing over the roads. Some look unfeasibly low to my untrained eye. They are obviously all ok and at a safe distance. A lot of smaller (11kV) HV cables on new road projects are put underground where they cross. They have just replaced the concrete A11 dual carriageway between Wymondham and Besthorpe in Norfolk. Being an ex-electrician, but still holding a strong interest, I was intrigued by the goal posts that were erected each side of the HV lines where they crossed the road. There was a notice beside stating the maximum height for travelling under the cables issued by whoever was responsible for the HV lines (mostly UK Power Networks in my neck of the wood). These were placed there by the contractor. So with this information, I assume that the contractors will have applied to UKPN who would provide this information. Let's hope they didn't send a guy out with a metal tape measure to check 
Sadly accidents do happen. Carbon Fibre Rods and Fishermen are very vulnerable. There was a case that came to court recently about a scaffolder. If you read the story, it makes you wonder how something like this was allowed to happen. Sadly it does. https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2024/...ower-line/ |
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20th Jan 2024 10:54am |
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| Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2656
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No, there is in fact very clear information on the minimum heights of overhead cables, it is in the HSE guidance I linked and comes from the Electricity supply regulations 1988. The expansion in the summer is part of this requirement, there is no ambiguity. One can not assume however that all lines have been installed to the correct height, or that the ground level has not been changed since installation.
It is the responsibility of the network operator to provide height measurement for new road crossing etc. and for this they either use non-conductive poles or, more commonly these days, an electronic measurement device. They will doctate the safe working clearance which will vary depending on the voltage and the activity being carried out, machinery/vehicles etc. - the numbers on the signage you saw. |
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20th Jan 2024 12:39pm |
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