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m7ble

Member Since: 24 Apr 2023
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 10

2009 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Corris Grey

Coolant Issue - Yet Another Post

Evening all

09 2.4 90K miles

I know there are many posts about Pumas and overheating. I’m unsure if it is worth starting another topic, but I thought I’d share my current issue.

I was driving normally just under a year ago, and the temperature gauge shot up and went into limp mode. Once I restarted the vehicle, I noticed the heater blew cold when idle but warmed up perfectly when driving. (Coolant levels fine)

I replaced the header tank as it was leaking, and the EGR valve was replaced.

During the year, I’ve clocked up 7k miles from short runs to 800-mile round trips with no issues whatsoever.

A couple of weeks ago, I was pulling off the bypass and stopped at the traffic lights and then noticed the heaters were cold - the same issues as previously but without the spike in temperature.

The header tank had split on the plastic weld, so I replaced this and a new thermostat to rule it out, causing the issue.

This is where it gets a little confusing and maybe complicated to explain.

Having picked up the car from the garage, everything was working fine apart from the temperature gauge. The temperate gauge never reached the midpoint, and if I accelerated hard, the needle would drop. If I drive and keep it constant, it would slowly rise but never reach the normal position on the gauge. (30 min drive.)

After this drive, I noticed the coolant level drop about 3 inches. Once cold in the morning, I'd open the tank, and it would release pressure, and the level would return to the cold fill line.

I thought it must be an airlock because of the negative pressure. (if that's how to describe it)

I attempted to bleed the system a few times but got the same issue repeatedly. However, after the 4th or 5th time, I finished the same 30-minute drive, and the coolant level was the same as when I set off. (but the temp gauge never reached mid-point.)

Today, I needed to run a few errands; as it's Christmas, I was out in the vehicle longer than I expected 50-minute journeys with a few stops. The temp gauge finally reached mid-way and stuck there. (no issues).

After stopping to get fuel and heading home, the heating inside the car went cold when I pulled up at the lights, so I pulled over to see what the coolant level was like. This time, it had gone the opposite way and was a couple of inches from the top (higher than the top pipe on the tank), but still got warm heat when I drove and got home fine.

After three hours, I needed to run one last errand, so I checked the coolant level, and it returned to the cold fill line. So, I set off, and everything worked as it should: hit mid-way on the temp gauge with heating inside the vehicle both idle and driving. When I got home, I checked the coolant level, and it was on the cold fill line.

I'm hoping I won't be asking Santa for a new head gasket as I don't have any tell-tale signs - no white smoke, milky oil, or coolant loss from what I can see.

It's booked in for a sniff test on the 2nd Jan and diagnostics but the garage is thinking possible EGR Cooler or water pump.

Any other suggestions would be great and I'll also update this thread on the outcome.

22nd Dec 2023 6:36pm

andy63

Member Since: 30 Jun 2023
Location: north east
Posts: 538

every time I read these threads I keep thinking that a lot of the symptoms could be tied in with a faulty or sticking thermostat , but as you say most end up with head gasket replacement..

thoughts are as follow....
if you have a egr cooler leak its likely to be a loss of coolant as that system is operating at the higher pressure than the exhaust system... that would result in the loss of heater and on cooling down the introduction of air......then the symptoms get more confusing the next time you run with possible air locks and lack of flow ..
if its a head gasket leak between cylinder and water space the water system becomes over pressurised possibly bursting radiator, coolers or header tank and again then you are left with confusing ongoing symptoms...
the drop in temperature on the system when revs are increased would indicate your pump is working..thats common on a working system..but I don't normally see the difference on the dash gauge , so im thinking if you can it sort of points to excessive cooling, like a wide open stat ..
I always remove the small bore hose to the top of the expansion tank when im checking for pump operation....if the engine is reved you should see a healthy stream of coolant from that line.. its often got a lot of air in it when you have just filled the system, but continual running should vent all that till you have a steady flow of coolant...
again hope you get it sorted

23rd Dec 2023 11:53am

m7ble

Member Since: 24 Apr 2023
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 10

Just following up on my last post.

Over Christmas, I used the vehicle for a couple of 100-mile round trips. Both journeys were motorway driving with quite a bit of hilly terrain in between. On the last journey, as I exited the motorway, the heating went cold when waiting at the lights.

I picked it up today from the garage, as it's been in for three days, and nothing obvious has come to light.

The thermostat has been replaced again as it's been replaced with a higher-temperature one, and everything is working perfectly on the gauge. It now sits midway all the time and no longer drops under load, so that's a tick.

They carried out a vacuum test, and no change in pressure for 30 minutes or so. They checked the water pump and flushed the radiator for any blockages and heating matrix - all showed no issues.

They pressure-filled the cooling system to eradicate any potential air locks.

However, after my drive home, I again noticed a drop in temperature through the blowers when idle and a rise in coolant level. (about 2 inches higher than the cold fill line)

I'm now concluding that when the coolant level rises, the heaters blow cold on idle, and when the coolant level doesn't change, it is warm and toasty, both idle and driven. I will check the levels tomorrow AM and see if they've dropped back down to the cold fill line. If so, I'll take it for a drive and see what happens when it is idle.

I'm now scratching my head, and as the garage is also stumped - I've brought up the dreaded head gasket, but they can't see it being that, and it's a big job for something that isn't certain to fix the issue.

(Apologies if I've used the incorrect terminology, as I'm more computer than mechanic

)

4th Jan 2024 10:13pm

Jerry

Member Since: 13 Nov 2015
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 199

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 Adventure Phoenix Orange

I have posted before on this and am no expert but the heating not working was the first serious symptom associated with a head gasket failure in my old Volvo xc70. It also used a bit of oil. Temperature guage was normal throughout. Eventually coolant dropped and white smoke etc but only after a lot of 1000s miles with no heater! Completely destroyed the engine in the end. Lesson learnt. I hope that helps.

4th Jan 2024 10:26pm

m7ble

Member Since: 24 Apr 2023
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 10

Hi Jerry,

I've seen your other post regarding this and appreciate the comment. I've been searching every forum for people with the same problem.

Everything seems to be pointing to the head gasket, and if vehicles are still under warranty, then LR is replacing the heads, which seems to eradicate the problem, but when it is not, the cost is substantial. Additionally, I've read a few comments that people have had this issue from new, and it's part of owning a defender, which I find obscured.

The annoying thing is that the issue is sporadic. The last time it happened was 8 - 9 months ago with the header tank leaking, and it was cured with a completely new header tank. 7k miles later, it's happened again, and it seems that if I give it a bit of a thrashing, it triggers this issue. The vehicle has had a stage 1 remap and I'm wondering if this has triggered the issue. As you can tell I'm looking into every possible other option

I will spend some time today ringing around today and looking into it. From what I can see, unless you know somebody or are very competent, it's roughly a £3.5k repair, and it seems people just now swap the engine

5th Jan 2024 7:29am

bear100

Member Since: 22 Mar 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1919

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

Had the same issues my self on long runs, changed tank cap numerous times, changed the header tank for an Optimal version, flushed system, changed thermostat, bypassed egr cooler etc etc.
i bought a Dr head gasket test kit which passed initially, but after at least a good half hour run up hills etc and then retested it failed proving i had a small leak on the head gasket which only appeared on a good run. Picking mine up from the garage tomorrow.

worth trying as its only a few ££ for the kit, the pressure builds in the system which expels water out of the cap and then the increased pressure and lack of coolant creates an airlock under load for the heater, when idle the level is just enough fill the heater flow pipe 2016 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 TDV8
2010 110 XS Utility 2.4TDCI
2010 Range Rover Sport TDV8 (gone)
2007 Discovery HSE TDV6 (gone)
1993 110 csw 200 tdi (gone)
1994 90 HT 300 tdi (gone)
1994 discovery 300tdi (gone)
90 hybrid 3.5 v8 (gone)
Range rover bobtail 3.5 v8 (gone)

5th Jan 2024 7:30am

m7ble

Member Since: 24 Apr 2023
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 10

Just a quick update: it's now booked in for the head gasket

so fingers crossed it's just that they don't find further problems.

8th Jan 2024 12:38pm

bear100

Member Since: 22 Mar 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1919

My turbo snapped when mine went in the other week

at the same time i had the glow plugs replaced, timing chain and cover replaced all new injector seals etc.

Click image to enlarge 2016 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 TDV8
2010 110 XS Utility 2.4TDCI
2010 Range Rover Sport TDV8 (gone)
2007 Discovery HSE TDV6 (gone)
1993 110 csw 200 tdi (gone)
1994 90 HT 300 tdi (gone)
1994 discovery 300tdi (gone)
90 hybrid 3.5 v8 (gone)
Range rover bobtail 3.5 v8 (gone)

8th Jan 2024 7:05pm

m7ble

Member Since: 24 Apr 2023
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 10

Just a quick update and to say thanks everyone who commented. Due to how busy the garage was, it only went in last Monday and they called on Wednesday to say the Head Gasket was completely

. No further damage or issues.

I pick it up this week

28th Jan 2024 8:03am

Jerry

Member Since: 13 Nov 2015
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 199

I’m glad you got to the bottom of this before causing any damage. Bw Jerry

28th Jan 2024 8:55am

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