 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Advice pls - catastrophic header tank failure |
 
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| ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1777   
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Just on our way to Caen to catch ferry, all totally normal, huge bang massive water and steam from all sides of bonnet, pulled over top half of header have shot off bottom with enough force to put a lump in the bonnet!
As an emergency cable tied top to bottom filled with about 4 litres of water and drove perfectly normally to services Used silicone and cable ties to secure 2 halves There is a leak somewhere but I can’t find it Stopping every 20 mins and adding 500 ml water All running perfectly normally Bad tank? Head gasket - no steam or wet in exhaust ? 250k km 2.4 tdci mild tune Cheers Keith |
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3rd Nov 2023 2:43pm |
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| ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1777
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Have got on ferry & will worry about it when in uk
Any suggestions would be gratefully received and will sign back in when off the massive maritime rates! |
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3rd Nov 2023 3:33pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414  
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The seam weld on those tanks is not the greatest. Mine is also showing some signs of failure. Keep in mind there is quite some force on that seam. At 14psi pressure (assuming tank diameter of 20cm), the force on the seam is over 300kg.
Reading about your incident, I should be exchanging mine, spare already got dusty. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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3rd Nov 2023 4:42pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4646 
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If the header tank was overfilled the water would have nowhere to "expand" so it would blow the top of the tank. Had a series 111 do this when the garage it was in for some work filled the header tank. It was like an explosion under the bonnet! Blew the top off the tank, all that was left were the threads of the cap still threaded to the bottle but the rest of the cap was gone. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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3rd Nov 2023 8:57pm |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 553  
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A note of caution - I believe the pressure created by the cap raises the boiling point of the water and as such no cap may create problems when running at higher temperatures.
I am not sure just what will happen but I don't believe it will be a favourable outcome! |
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3rd Nov 2023 10:05pm |
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| ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1777
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Thanks guys, With daughter and son in law doing a mercy dash with several litres of water we’ve got to Camberley for the night!
My silicone and cable tied repair failed and we lost a lot of water so ran out and went into limp mode for about 5 seconds Will try to source new tank first thing, any recommendations around Camberley?? Thanks again |
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4th Nov 2023 12:31am |
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| LandRoverAnorak Member Since: 17 Jul 2011 Location: Surrey Posts: 11324
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The only place I can think of that might have one to hand is Challenger 4x4. They've downsized to effectively a one man band recently so don't have a big workshop anymore but you might be lucky. Try Lucy on 07836 713677, which is their business number. Darren
110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia |
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4th Nov 2023 9:30am |
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1041 
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My kinda of adventure. Should make a YouTube vid
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4th Nov 2023 12:10pm |
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| ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1777
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Well managed to get a header from Reading LR, very helpful guy called John.
Fitted filled and bled. Drove 20 min and filled with 1/2 litre. Drove 20mins and another 1/2 litre….. Clamped off the flow and return to the egr cooler and no loss of water since, drove Camberley to Gloucester with the ifor tipper, collected the 1tonne dumper I’ve bought, did a few errands around Evesham and back to Camberley, all running perfectly so far anyway. Back to France tomorrow and when home will pull the egr cooler and test it. Will photograph anything I find and post Thanks again |
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4th Nov 2023 9:13pm |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 1997
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Glad you found the issue and it’s not the head gasket .
I guess the heat ( perhaps steam) generated overwhelmed the ability of the coolant expansion cap to release the pressure.....and bang the expansion tank top separated with a lot of force. I would check your engine oil for contamination, in fact renew the oil and filter before you drive much further as a precautionary measure. Just a thought :- With the 2.4 you can have the EGR mapped out (BAS can do it) and then blank off the inlet to the cooler and the EGR outlet. Then that’s two less components to fail and the savings on buying a new cooler can be put towards the EGR mapping out . |
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4th Nov 2023 10:31pm |
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| ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1777
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Thanks Ian, in my panic I hadn’t given a thought to checking the oil. This is one of the many benefits of having other experts and enthusiasts with clear thoughts helping from afar.
Ian at IRB did a remap 410nm? And egr map out must be over 10 years ago, and I fitted a blanking plate as well but didn’t go any further. Being lhd and access is a pain I think I will get 2 more std bleed elbows and replace the tees in the heater system, should look fairly stock. Then I’ll take out the egr cooler and blank the exhaust manifold it can’t be seen at mot time. Cheers Keith |
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5th Nov 2023 7:32am |
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| ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1777
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Well the saga continues.
On the way to Portsmouth I checked everything at the services and a clamp on the hose to the EGR cooler had come off - refitted and refilled with water. Checked again 20 minutes later - losing water still. Overnight to St Malo - 2 hour wait at the Douane, another story, set off again, stopping every 20 minutes but losing a lot of water, lost power (limp mode?) and pulled off the motorway and arranged flatbed recovery back home, F%&£ me that is eye wateringly expensive in France! In barn on ramp now, radiator is split. Connected top and bottom hoses together, removed clamps off egr cooler and pressurised system to 15psi, held at 14psi overnight. Just re pressurised to 28psi and its still holding after an hour. Waiting for Mr Bezos to deliver a compression tester at the moment. If the EGR cooler was split, surely it wouldn't hold pressure overnight? If the head gasket had failed from bore to water jacket it wouldn't hold pressure overnight? I ran it briefly with no radiator, there is no noticeable crankcase pressure at all with the filler cap off. Filler cap is squeaky clean, no sign of mayonnaise at all. I have 3 of the 4 glow plugs out / loose number 4 has broken off 
Head gasket failing when warm /under load? EGR cooler failing when hot? I'm somewhat confused!!!! Any ideas?? Thanks in advance |
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10th Nov 2023 10:34am |
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| ickle Member Since: 22 Jul 2010 Location: South Vendee Posts: 1777
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As there are several overheating threads on here recently & at least one still live I thought I'd put the conclusions of my recent problems on here in case they are any help to anyone else:
I had a very small coolant loss over a long period that I put down to a weeping heater control valve. There was never an overheating problem (on Scangauge not standard dash gauge) There was never a trace of water in the oil or oil in the water Performance was really good as was economy It turns out I had several faults: Coolant cap was faulty and didn't receive any excess pressure, held 28psi all night Faulty coolant cap then made expansion tank fail very spectacularly and also split the radiator at the same time for good measure. Rise in coolant pressure was caused by a cracked cylinder head - very minor but according to Frida at Turner Engineering they are selling a lot of 2.4 heads these days, I suppose the newest is 12 ish years old and mine 16 years and 245k km I was driving carefully back from the ferry to home adding coolant due to the split rad when I thought it had gone into limp mode, but it turns out it was the vanes on the turbo stuck as I found out after fitting the new head, rad etc etc and it still having no power! I cannot see any reason when the turbo stuck at that point that is connected to a very tiny head crack, the engine at no point 'overheated', but it did go into limp mode at 110 degrees (?) on the Hogs Back. So in short a faulty £30 expansion cap caused & showed up a very expensive £5K ish weekend! |
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16th Dec 2023 9:17pm |
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| neirbossor Member Since: 10 Jun 2021 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 23  
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Ah you are making me worry now, very similar issue regarding constant coolant loss. With the crack in the head was there any sign of coolant getting into the engine or was the crack causing coolant loss directly into the cylinders?
Glad you have sorted it, but if its a £5k bill heading my way then will have to cut my losses. |
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17th Dec 2023 1:08pm |
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