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blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17443

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Don't forget also that the standard for BS fastener head sizes has also changed so that even for these there are several different standards.

Commonly the head on a BSF fastener is one size smaller than the head of the same diameter BSW fastener. For example, a spanner will typically be marked (and will fit) 1/4"BSW / 5/16"BSF.

However in 1924 BS129 defined the British Standard Whitworth (Small hexagon) standard (known as BSWS, or sometimes "Auto-Whit") for which the coarse and fine head sizes matched. In 1940 the standards were revised again as as a War Emergency to reduce steel consumption and this defined the "normal" BSW head sizes to be the same as the earlier BSF sizes, as a result of which BSF, BSW, and BSWS all shared the same head size for a given diameter. After the war manufacturers seem to have reverted to the original relationship between BSF and BSW head sizes, with the result that the traditional "one step" size difference returned.

Most commonly therefore you will find that you need a spanner marked as in my first paragraph, but depending on the age of the fastener and the age of the spanner this may not always be the case.

There is of course a huge number of other threads which you may come across on old engineering artefacts, such as British Standard Cycle threads, British Standard Brass threads, British Standard Naval threads, and so on. Fortunately usually on vehicles we generally only have to contend with BSW, BSF, UNC, UNF, ISO metric coarse, and ISO metric fine.

Land-Rover has always like to mix and match - the front axle of my 2007 TDCi Defender has metric, BSF, and UNF threads at various locations and this continued to the end of Defender production in 2016. When your 86" left the factory, almost every fastener would have been either BSW, BSF, of BA (for things like electrical connections), however some components even then had small metric threads. After the passage of time it is highly likely that it now has an utterly random selection of whatever was handy at the time that a repair was needed, and usually (based on my experience) this will include mis-matched nuts and bolts (eg and UNC nut jammed on a BSW bolt etc) so you should be prepared for all eventualities. The good news of course is that this is the perfect justification, as if any were needed, to buy more and more tools!

13th Dec 2023 11:45pm

I Like Old Skool

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Manchester
Posts: 814

1994 Defender 110 300 Tdi ST Coniston Green

Buy more and more tools.....

I like!

14th Dec 2023 12:11am

TexasRover

Member Since: 24 Nov 2022
Location: Paris
Posts: 1084

2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Chawton White

I Like Old Skool wrote:
Struggling with nuts!

One thing to remember is that Whitworth spanners are sized by the bolt diameter, not the distance across the hex head sides as with Metric and Imperial. What that means is a 1/2 BSW is massive when compared with 1/2 BSF.

This difference is interesting as I never quite understood the sizes. Yes I have a collection of non-metric spanners but I just take one with a good fit when I need it and given up a little trying to understand the numbers on them.

In America you go to any hardware store like Ace and they will have all sizes and types of bolts and nuts. Not sure it's a good thing.

14th Dec 2023 5:30am

L110CDL

Member Since: 31 Oct 2015
Location: Devon
Posts: 10782

Thank you blackwolf for the detailed information in your post, i still have a few Whitworth spanner's in my " spanner " tool box, which do come in handy when needed

1996 Golf Blue 300Tdi 110 Pick up.

Keeper.

Clayton.

15th Dec 2023 8:34pm

I Like Old Skool

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Manchester
Posts: 814

Big step forward for the Series 1 today. After a few brief failed attempts to start the engine over Christmas with some problems due to a loose starter motor and possible failed coil (now replaced) we finally got it to catch and run today

It started quite easily at this attempt so looks like my final fettle of the spark plug connections and new coil did the trick.

Starter motor mount was held in by one loose nut and the casting was cracked for that one stud/nut.... Luckily oldest son had access to a tig welder and got one of the guys at his work to repair it.

Now we can move onto the hubs and brakes.

5th Jan 2024 8:47pm

L110CDL

Member Since: 31 Oct 2015
Location: Devon
Posts: 10782

Great start to the new year

1996 Golf Blue 300Tdi 110 Pick up.

Keeper.

Clayton.

5th Jan 2024 8:58pm

Screbble

Member Since: 26 Apr 2015
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2106

2004 Defender 90 Td5 XS CSW Zambezi Silver

I Like Old Skool wrote:
Big step forward for the Series 1 today. After a few brief failed attempts to start the engine over Christmas with some problems due to a loose starter motor and possible failed coil (now replaced) we finally got it to catch and run today

It started quite easily at this attempt so looks like my final fettle of the spark plug connections and new coil did the trick.

Starter motor mount was held in by one loose nut and the casting was cracked for that one stud/nut.... Luckily oldest son had access to a tig welder and got one of the guys at his work to repair it.

Now we can move onto the hubs and brakes.

All good stuff as they say - good news - keep us posted 👍

7th Jan 2024 1:54pm

I Like Old Skool

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Manchester
Posts: 814

Ripped into the S1 front axle today for a rebuild with new brakes and seals. Got a bit of a surprise when I removed the stub axle!!!

Was planning to replace the axle tube oil seal to keep swivel and diff oils separate but found things weren't quite what I expected for a 1954 86".... Instead of pulling out a uj shaft I got part of a Tracta Joint in my hand, cue a frantic scour of the web and the discovery that for some reason I was in possession of the earlier drive shaft from the 80" era.

From what I can see the inner shaft is retained in the swivel ball housing by a pressed collar and bearing and there is no oil seal?. I stopped the disassembly at this point and just rebuilt with what I had. Reading up on the Tracta Joint is reassuring as they seem to be considered stronger than the uj and also affectively a CV/cardan joint so if necessary in future can run full-time 4wd should we decide to. Tracta Joint components appeared to be in as new condition so fingers crossed I find the passenger side contains the same tomorrow (weather permitting).

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

Also have had to discard the AVM locking front hubs. O/S was ok but N/S has had water in it and locking collar is seized inside the housing. Solid drive flanges fitted for now and will probably be permanent as I do like to keep things simple. Exposed hub parts given a lick of paint and drums shot blasted/painted then baked. All looking rather good now if I may say so and will be a doddle to work on in the future now it's all cleaned up.

Click image to enlarge

22nd Jan 2024 11:37pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17443

The Tracta joints are generally considered superior (except in terms of cost) and are of course true constant velocity joints, unlike a Hooke joint. The reason they were fitted in the early days is of course because the first 80" Land-Rovers had full-time 4WD with a (lockable) overrun freewheel in the transfer box front output housing, and hence a CV joint was considered necessary.

You are correct in thinking that the halfshaft is retained in the swivel ball, the arrangement is essentially the same as that for the semi-floating rear axle in that there is a distance piece, the bearing, then a retaining collar pressed on to hold the whole lot together. They are not especially easy to dismantle and reassemble (and strictly the retaining collar is a "selective fit" part which complicates things) and special (and now rare) tools are required. Generally the bearing in the front axle last forever since lubrication is good, so you'd be unlucky if you needed to dismantle it. The LRSOC can provide advice if needed.

You are also correct in that there is no seal, since the same type of oil is used in both the axle and swivel housing and migration between the oil spaces does no harm.

23rd Jan 2024 10:23am

I Like Old Skool

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Manchester
Posts: 814

Another milestone today. The old bus has been driven under its own steam!
The last week or two has seen the brake overhaul completed and now has an operational footbrake (needs shoes properly bedding in) and an excellent handbrake. Have changed both diff pinion seals and T/case output seals. This is in addition to previously servicing all the hubs so hopefully now reasonably oil tight unless it comes out between gearbox and T/case or from clutch bell housing....

Have a short vid of jnr taking the maiden drive on the cul-de-sac so will see if I can post this. He's a very happy boy and totally smitten with his first car!

29th Mar 2024 12:08am

I Like Old Skool

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Manchester
Posts: 814

https://youtube.com/shorts/Dhr6cVaSrKU?feature=shared

29th Mar 2024 12:23am

TexasRover

Member Since: 24 Nov 2022
Location: Paris
Posts: 1084

Its your car and no offense intended but why did you loose the original wheels?

Wheels maketh the car, and somehow I think the smaller wheels suit these older small landrovers better.

29th Mar 2024 7:31am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17443

Did my ears deceive me or was that a pretty catastrophic change from first to second?

The DDC technique needs some practice perhaps.....

29th Mar 2024 9:25am

I Like Old Skool

Member Since: 23 Feb 2015
Location: Manchester
Posts: 814

He hasn't driven since he passed his test a few months ago. Give him a break.....

29th Mar 2024 4:53pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17443

Fair enough then, a new skill to master (if the gearbox holds out)!

We were all learners once.

29th Mar 2024 6:01pm

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