↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Puma (Tdci) > Advice pls - catastrophic header tank failure
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 1 of 2 12>
Print this entire topic · 
ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
Advice pls - catastrophic header tank failure
Just on our way to Caen to catch ferry, all totally normal, huge bang massive water and steam from all sides of bonnet, pulled over top half of header have shot off bottom with enough force to put a lump in the bonnet!
As an emergency cable tied top to bottom filled with about 4 litres of water and drove perfectly normally to services
Used silicone and cable ties to secure 2 halves
There is a leak somewhere but I can’t find it
Stopping every 20 mins and adding 500 ml water
All running perfectly normally
Bad tank?
Head gasket - no steam or wet in exhaust ?
250k km 2.4 tdci mild tune
Cheers Keith
Post #1013791 3rd Nov 2023 2:43pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
Have got on ferry & will worry about it when in uk

Any suggestions would be gratefully received and will sign back in when off the massive maritime rates!
Post #1013794 3rd Nov 2023 3:33pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1972

United Kingdom 
It could be something as simple as the expansion cap failing and not letting pressure out, that may be the cause, or compounded another cause that created such large pressure that the tank exploded. For sure I would not use the old cap, in fact if you are looking to limp home I would have it loose enough to allow pressure out.

If the cap not allowing the release of pressure was the cause then it may have caused a hose to dislodge or split, or one of the other components connected to the coolant system to fail, ie radiator, heater matrix, heater valve, EGR cooler, head gasket.

On the other hand it could be a faulty EGR cooler or worse a head gasket that caused the over pressure.
Post #1013795 3rd Nov 2023 3:36pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Dinnu



Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3403

Malta 2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black
The seam weld on those tanks is not the greatest. Mine is also showing some signs of failure. Keep in mind there is quite some force on that seam. At 14psi pressure (assuming tank diameter of 20cm), the force on the seam is over 300kg.
Reading about your incident, I should be exchanging mine, spare already got dusty. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black
Post #1013799 3rd Nov 2023 4:42pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
spudfan



Member Since: 10 Sep 2007
Location: Co Donegal
Posts: 4636

Ireland 
If the header tank was overfilled the water would have nowhere to "expand" so it would blow the top of the tank. Had a series 111 do this when the garage it was in for some work filled the header tank. It was like an explosion under the bonnet! Blew the top off the tank, all that was left were the threads of the cap still threaded to the bottle but the rest of the cap was gone. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali
2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu
2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai
Post #1013836 3rd Nov 2023 8:57pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Mossberg



Member Since: 29 Feb 2020
Location: Lancs
Posts: 553

United Kingdom 1993 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Aintree Green
A note of caution - I believe the pressure created by the cap raises the boiling point of the water and as such no cap may create problems when running at higher temperatures.

I am not sure just what will happen but I don't believe it will be a favourable outcome!
Post #1013841 3rd Nov 2023 10:05pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
Thanks guys, With daughter and son in law doing a mercy dash with several litres of water we’ve got to Camberley for the night!

My silicone and cable tied repair failed and we lost a lot of water so ran out and went into limp mode for about 5 seconds

Will try to source new tank first thing, any recommendations around Camberley??

Thanks again
Post #1013846 4th Nov 2023 12:31am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

United Kingdom 
The only place I can think of that might have one to hand is Challenger 4x4. They've downsized to effectively a one man band recently so don't have a big workshop anymore but you might be lucky. Try Lucy on 07836 713677, which is their business number. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #1013862 4th Nov 2023 9:30am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
TexasRover



Member Since: 24 Nov 2022
Location: Paris
Posts: 1017

France 2002 Defender 110 Td5 DCPU Chawton White
My kinda of adventure. Should make a YouTube vid
Post #1013885 4th Nov 2023 12:10pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
Well managed to get a header from Reading LR, very helpful guy called John.
Fitted filled and bled. Drove 20 min and filled with 1/2 litre.
Drove 20mins and another 1/2 litre…..

Clamped off the flow and return to the egr cooler and no loss of water since, drove Camberley to Gloucester with the ifor tipper, collected the 1tonne dumper I’ve bought, did a few errands around Evesham and back to Camberley, all running perfectly so far anyway.

Back to France tomorrow and when home will pull the egr cooler and test it.

Will photograph anything I find and post

Thanks again
Post #1013956 4th Nov 2023 9:13pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Ianh



Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1972

United Kingdom 
Glad you found the issue and it’s not the head gasket .

I guess the heat ( perhaps steam) generated overwhelmed the ability of the coolant expansion cap to release the pressure.....and bang the expansion tank top separated with a lot of force.

I would check your engine oil for contamination, in fact renew the oil and filter before you drive much further as a precautionary measure.

Just a thought :- With the 2.4 you can have the EGR mapped out (BAS can do it) and then blank off the inlet to the cooler and the EGR outlet. Then that’s two less components to fail and the savings on buying a new cooler can be put towards the EGR mapping out .
Post #1013965 4th Nov 2023 10:31pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
Thanks Ian, in my panic I hadn’t given a thought to checking the oil. This is one of the many benefits of having other experts and enthusiasts with clear thoughts helping from afar.

Ian at IRB did a remap 410nm? And egr map out must be over 10 years ago, and I fitted a blanking plate as well but didn’t go any further.

Being lhd and access is a pain I think I will get 2 more std bleed elbows and replace the tees in the heater system, should look fairly stock. Then I’ll take out the egr cooler and blank the exhaust manifold it can’t be seen at mot time.

Cheers Keith
Post #1013976 5th Nov 2023 7:32am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
Well the saga continues.

On the way to Portsmouth I checked everything at the services and a clamp on the hose to the EGR cooler had come off - refitted and refilled with water.

Checked again 20 minutes later - losing water still.

Overnight to St Malo - 2 hour wait at the Douane, another story, set off again, stopping every 20 minutes but losing a lot of water, lost power (limp mode?) and pulled off the motorway and arranged flatbed recovery back home, F%&£ me that is eye wateringly expensive in France!

In barn on ramp now, radiator is split. Connected top and bottom hoses together, removed clamps off egr cooler and pressurised system to 15psi, held at 14psi overnight. Just re pressurised to 28psi and its still holding after an hour. Waiting for Mr Bezos to deliver a compression tester at the moment.

If the EGR cooler was split, surely it wouldn't hold pressure overnight?
If the head gasket had failed from bore to water jacket it wouldn't hold pressure overnight?

I ran it briefly with no radiator, there is no noticeable crankcase pressure at all with the filler cap off.
Filler cap is squeaky clean, no sign of mayonnaise at all.
I have 3 of the 4 glow plugs out / loose number 4 has broken off Evil or Very Mad

Head gasket failing when warm /under load?

EGR cooler failing when hot?

I'm somewhat confused!!!! Any ideas?? Thanks in advance
Post #1014671 10th Nov 2023 10:34am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
ickle



Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1776

France 2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White
As there are several overheating threads on here recently & at least one still live I thought I'd put the conclusions of my recent problems on here in case they are any help to anyone else:

I had a very small coolant loss over a long period that I put down to a weeping heater control valve.
There was never an overheating problem (on Scangauge not standard dash gauge)
There was never a trace of water in the oil or oil in the water
Performance was really good as was economy

It turns out I had several faults:
Coolant cap was faulty and didn't receive any excess pressure, held 28psi all night
Faulty coolant cap then made expansion tank fail very spectacularly and also split the radiator at the same time for good measure.
Rise in coolant pressure was caused by a cracked cylinder head - very minor but according to Frida at Turner Engineering they are selling a lot of 2.4 heads these days, I suppose the newest is 12 ish years old and mine 16 years and 245k km

I was driving carefully back from the ferry to home adding coolant due to the split rad when I thought it had gone into limp mode, but it turns out it was the vanes on the turbo stuck as I found out after fitting the new head, rad etc etc and it still having no power!

I cannot see any reason when the turbo stuck at that point that is connected to a very tiny head crack, the engine at no point 'overheated', but it did go into limp mode at 110 degrees (?) on the Hogs Back.

So in short a faulty £30 expansion cap caused & showed up a very expensive £5K ish weekend!
Post #1018552 16th Dec 2023 9:17pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
neirbossor



Member Since: 10 Jun 2021
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 23

Scotland 2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Bonatti Grey
Ah you are making me worry now, very similar issue regarding constant coolant loss. With the crack in the head was there any sign of coolant getting into the engine or was the crack causing coolant loss directly into the cylinders?
Glad you have sorted it, but if its a £5k bill heading my way then will have to cut my losses.
Post #1018576 17th Dec 2023 1:08pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 1 of 2 12>
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
DEFENDER2.NET RSS Feed - All Forums