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Nasher

Member Since: 28 Dec 2011
Location: Near Pompey
Posts: 46

Trim levels

As part of my ‘taking more notice of Defenders’ for when I move on from my D4 I’ve been looking at used ones for sale online.

Firstly I’m surprised at how many ads for 110s don’t specify if a vehicle is 5 or 7 seats, which is key to me as I need a 110 5 seater for the flat rear seat folded load space, not a 7 seater.
So I’m not sure what the split in the marketplace is like with regards to availability?
I do need 5 seats at times, so a commercial is not an option unfortunately.

I’m sufficiently happy with the whole D/P 250 300 400 etc engine range.
But I’m thoroughly confused by trim levels.
Possibly because a lot of vehicles are now being advertised by non-LR franchise dealers who don’t understand what the trim levels are.

I always buy used, between 2-5yrs old, and always choose a higher spec older vehicle with maybe just a few more miles than a younger less high spec vehicle.

My D4 HSE Lux is of course ‘fully loaded’ for it’s time with toys, but realise some have been superseded or are no longer relevant, and a lot I never needed in the first place.
I am fussy about the quality of music played in a vehicle, which is where my D4 HSE Lux with it’s high end surround system scores over say an D4 XS, but I think everything else I use regularly like Satnav, rear camera, phone pairing, Leather seats etc are going to be standard across the range now.

Looking at how the vehicles are advertised I’m sort of assuming the D3/4 order of trim level applies in terms of S,XS,HSE etc, but some dealers are confusing me with additional bits of description.

Examples of what I’ve seen advertised are below, and I think I’ve arranged them in roughly the right order, but the word ‘Dynamic’ also appears to get thrown in occasionally with an ‘X’ or without.

X-Dynamic S
X-Dymanic SE
X-Dynamic Same as above?
XS
XS Edition Same as above?
SE
X
X-Dynamic HSE
First Edition Where does this fit?
75th Limited Edition Where does this fit?
Carpathian -Ignore this one.

At what point in the list do you think I’m going to start missing stuff that’s in my D4HSE Lux?
Apart from of course the 7 seats, split tailgate etc.

Is there an easy guide anywhere showing the various trim levels?

I should say that I would definitely be swayed by anything specifically aimed at making life easier when hitching and towing my boat.

I hadn't realised Air suspension wasn't across the range.
I like it myself, especially when the car self levels with a heavy trailer on the back.
Does anyone know at what point in the spec range it kicks in?
Perhaps that's the Dynamic bit???

I’m happy using my GAPII tool on my D4 which I’d get sorted for a Defender.
Is there a lot of purely electronic stuff I could just unlock with it?
I’m thinking of things like the 4x4 screen in a D3/4 which can simply be unlocked on the lower trim level models.

Any help to relieve the confusion would be appreciated.
I know I’m going to have to travel to look at cars, but don’t want too many wasted journeys.
When buying my D3 and my D4 I had so many questions about spec answered incorrectly over the phone before viewing that I’d rather be a bit more clued up myself before travelling.
Some sales guys are clueless and others just liars, which doesn’t help when you’ve spent £50 on fuel to view a car.

23rd Oct 2023 2:43pm

XplusYplusZ

Member Since: 16 Aug 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 483

When the vehicle was first launched, many (including ADs) didn't know that there were two stages to folding flat the second row in the 7 seater. You have to apply a little(ok, a LOT) of weight onto the seat backs, but the second row does fold almost entirely flat. (photos from an old post on here, courtesy of Hugh Martin).

Just folded Forward, not locked into position:

Click image to enlarge

Folded forwarded and locked in position:

Click image to enlarge

Your list is about right.
The 4pots are probably worth avoiding, given a couple blew up and they swiftly moved to 6pots. I'm sure loads of them were fine...but... do you really want to chance it out of warranty!?

The X-Dynamics had fancier exteriors, (darker grey bumpers, black rear tow eyes, shiny black sills), but not full leather seats. Non-X-Dynamics had the matte plastic sills and a lighter coloured grey bumper. They generally had either full leather seats, or cloth seats..
AVOID cloth seats from the earlier models, they stained pretty badly even from just water drips.

From low to high trim levels:
S
X-Dynamic S
SE
X-Dynamic SE
XS - kinda floats around the HSE level of trim I think. 75th also sits around here but is a very marmite colour. Maybe good for a deal to be struck though..
HSE
X-Dynamic HSE
V8 / Carpathian / Spectre..

for the MY23/23.5s there were also a couple of important differences which varied on the time of day the car rolled out the factory it seems - where either a 9 or 11inch central display screen was built.
Similarly interchangable on 23 years was the drivers console - it may be two analog dials with a small screen, OR a big Interactive Driver's Display (many people prefer the IDD).
In MY23.5 they did away with standard air suspension, so if you buy before MY23.5 you'll almost certainly have air suspension (though you could option springs specially). For MY23.5 you had to pay extra for Air - 7 seaters had to have air..
It's a minefield and not all very obvious..

23rd Oct 2023 3:57pm

MHE15

Member Since: 25 Mar 2022
Location: Midlands
Posts: 32

To get my load bay flat I first pull up the back seat base, fold forward the head restraints then fold the seat backs down. Gives a fully flat floor.

23rd Oct 2023 4:04pm

mse

Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5035

2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey

Quote:
Your list is about right.
The 4pots are probably worth avoiding, given a couple blew up and they swiftly moved to 6pots. I'm sure loads of them were fine...but... do you really want to chance it out of warranty!?

The 4 pots are fine, they are used across the range and probably in similar volumes and i think theres just as many failure of the 6 pots.

The defenders were designed for the 4 as the 6 wasnt ready in design and they needed to launch it.

Quote:
The X-Dynamics had fancier exteriors, (darker grey bumpers, black rear tow eyes, shiny black sills), but not full leather seats. Non-X-Dynamics had the matte plastic sills and a lighter coloured grey bumper. They generally had either full leather seats, or cloth seats..
AVOID cloth seats from the earlier models, they stained pretty badly even from just water drips.

Cloth stain was a warranty fix

When fixed there are no issues.

Trim levels arent simple themselves as they changed in MY and shortage based.

I still think the early ones have more (like dimming mirrors both side) Mike

23rd Oct 2023 4:51pm

RDR

Member Since: 27 Apr 2018
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 592

I’ve just spent the last 4 weeks sourcing an instock new defender it is a minefield. The line up is overly complicated and if your not careful further complicated by the parts shortages and spec tweaks, cars of the same designation can have significant differences such is analogue dash vs digital and air suspension vs coils.

I eventually found a d300 x dynamic HSE with 95% of what I want just missing rear heated seats and rear cool assist. 110 MY23.5 X Dynamic HSE
RR MY23 HSE PHEV
D5 MY19 HSE - Now Sold
D4 MY16 HSE Luxury - Now Sold
D4 MY12 HSE - Gone
D3 MY06 S - Gone but not forgotten

23rd Oct 2023 5:25pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3388

When it was first launched, everything was simpler and cheaper.

Defender (base model)
S
SE
HSE
First Edition
X 24MY 90 D250 HSE, Tasman Blue

23rd Oct 2023 6:15pm

Defendit..

Member Since: 09 Aug 2020
Location: 's-Hertogenbosch
Posts: 421

Everything was very complete @ introduction on all levels. So my S spec MY21 is now almost SE/HSE spec.
It's a commercial journey by JLR, no other car producer makes it lesser and more expensive.
They get away with it.
Search for a full spec 2021, my advice. No Mud flaps for my 90.!
-----------------------------------------
P300 S MY21 on air, adv.+ offroad pack, DRL+fog, Dinamica Suedecloth + Ebony headliner/Cross Beam- Many Mods..

23rd Oct 2023 6:46pm

Nasher

Member Since: 28 Dec 2011
Location: Near Pompey
Posts: 46

Thanks all, I do appreciate your comments, and am glad it appears that it's not just my aging brain getting confused by the many and varied options.

XplusYplusZ, many thanks for your description and images of the folded seats in your 7 seat 110, they are certainly folded flatter than I've seen others.
Unfortunately of course they are still not completely flat, which is important to me, and something I'm used to having coming from a string of D3/4s.
I note you mention another thread about the subject, do you have a link please?

MHE15, your comment is interesting about lifting the seat base.
Have you posted any images in another thread?

Last edited by Nasher on 24th Oct 2023 9:03am. Edited 1 time in total

24th Oct 2023 7:06am

mse

Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5035

I like my defender, enjoyed my D4's and liked the D5.

I would say if you want the capability of the D4, capacity etc - get the D5.

The defender is definitely more like the older defender than the Discovery. I know why people will say its more like the D4, although i think thats not correct, its more about the comparison of the D4 to D5. Mike

24th Oct 2023 7:22am

XplusYplusZ

Member Since: 16 Aug 2021
Location: UK
Posts: 483

Nasher wrote:

I note you mention another thread about the subject, do you have a link please?

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic81042...=fold+flat

24th Oct 2023 7:29am

AmL

Member Since: 22 Jan 2016
Location: Devon
Posts: 30

mse wrote:
I like my defender, enjoyed my D4's and liked the D5.

I would say if you want the capability of the D4, capacity etc - get the D5.

The defender is definitely more like the older defender than the Discovery. I know why people will say its more like the D4, although i think thats not correct, its more about the comparison of the D4 to D5.

Other than in name, the new Defender is nothing like the old one. The new Defender should have been called a Discovery, and the Discovery 5 consigned to the ugly bin.

24th Oct 2023 8:04am

Nasher

Member Since: 28 Dec 2011
Location: Near Pompey
Posts: 46

XplusYplusZ wrote:
Nasher wrote:

I note you mention another thread about the subject, do you have a link please?

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic81042...=fold+flat

Many thanks

24th Oct 2023 9:04am

Nasher

Member Since: 28 Dec 2011
Location: Near Pompey
Posts: 46

AmL wrote:

Other than in name, the new Defender is nothing like the old one. The new Defender should have been called a Discovery, and the Discovery 5 consigned to the ugly bin.

I fully agree with this statement.
The D5 is a step too far for me in terms of styling.
Yes, it's a very capable vehicle which would replace my D4 fully in terms of my practical needs, but at this stage I just wouldn't want to look at one on my drive.

24th Oct 2023 9:08am

MHE15

Member Since: 25 Mar 2022
Location: Midlands
Posts: 32

Nasher, I have a five seat 110. Pictures of the load floor with the rear seat bases pulled up and seat backs down. You do not have to remove the rear head rests, just fold them forward then they slot in next to the raised seat base.

Michael

Click image to enlarge

25th Oct 2023 3:11pm

Nasher

Member Since: 28 Dec 2011
Location: Near Pompey
Posts: 46

Thanks MHE15, they show how little the upturned squab shortens the load area

25th Oct 2023 10:14pm

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