 | Home > INEOS Grenadier > Manual gearbox |
 
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| TexasRover Member Since: 24 Nov 2022 Location: Paris Posts: 1084   
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Actually I think it is universally agreed that Automatics are much better for offroad conditions as they can downshift without loosing momentum which is pretty nice for those hills that you approach at speed but need to slow down once you get to the top.
Having said that I much prefer driving manuals day to day. Automatics are sooo boring. When I drive I much rather be busy with driving. Also my shift changes are better than yours - I am driving god. |
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11th Oct 2023 9:44am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443  
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Provided that you can lock the transmission in a gear of your choice when needed, and ideally the box has a rear pump so it can be tow started, then generally an auto is a huge advantage off-road. I am sure however that there are many who would still prefer a manual version, even if they don't really know why!
Personally I would not be fussed about manual or auto, what I would like is an affordable version of the Grenadier!  |
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11th Oct 2023 10:35am |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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I'd prefer a manual. On or off road.
Don't get me wrong, autos off road can go very well and if pure rock crawling I think they make sense. But they just aren't as fun and engaging otherwise. And you never do get the same engine braking or low speed throttle control. HDC can mask the engine braking thing, but it doesn't work in all conditions. Most modern autos can lock the torque converter up in low too, but so many then still leave it in a D and end up skating down slopes in a manner I'd personally not. On road it is a no brainer. Manuals are 10x more fun to drive. And I find almost every single autobox and especially newer ones highly annoying. They are all dimwitted and do things I don't want and don't do things I want them to. On the flip side, I love how EV vehicles work with a single speed transmission. They cure all of the complaints I have with autoboxes. Although I've not driven an EV off road yet. |
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11th Oct 2023 10:02pm |
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| steveww Member Since: 05 Jan 2022 Location: Uppingham Posts: 569 
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A manual has more fun factor whether on or off road. For the boring daily grind of just getting somewhere an auto makes life easy; especially when stuck in traffic.
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16th Oct 2023 4:10pm |
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| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2840
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Having now done 11,000 miles in a new Defender with the same ZF 8-speed transmission as the Grenadier, l can say that it is a very good unit.
lt's the first Auto l have driven. lt never really does anything l don't want it to do, whether driving on road, off road, or towing the caravan. |
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19th Mar 2024 10:35pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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Huge advantage? Most certainly not. Small advantage if rock crawling. Else it is just preference. |
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19th Mar 2024 10:46pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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Yes I would be the sort of person who would prefer a manual. I have nothing against autos. Have a modded and lifted p38 Range Rover auto and have owned/driven plenty of autos on and off road. But much prefer a manual. |
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19th Mar 2024 10:47pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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I find the opposite. I found the 8 speed highly annoying. It did lots I just didn’t want it too and was very dimwhitted at times. It’s not just the ZF8 but other modern gearboxes. They have lots of ratios so can keep the engine in a sweet spot without having an rpm gap. But from a standstill the First Edition Defender was truly dreadful. I also found that like many other modern autos if you go to wide open throttle they just hang and lag for ages before deciding on a gear. My old 4 speed is much better in this regard. Overall I’m yet to drive and auto that wouldn’t be improved by being a manual. On the flip side I rather like how EV’s work and they solve every issue I have with autos. |
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19th Mar 2024 10:52pm |
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| kenzle8a Member Since: 12 Feb 2020 Location: None Posts: 1074 
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Admittedly I've only driven the 8 speed in a Discovery Sport it wasn't that bad so long as it was in its happy place. I'd hate to actually have to live with it or rely on it in manual mode, it could never quite make up its mind about what it wanted to do.
Going up and down an alpine pass with in Italy was an utter pain in the ass, it got flummoxed in auto on the hairpins and was never quite in the right place in manual. The 6hp in my TDV8 L322 was better but I still didn't like the autobox with the weight of the car once you were on any kind of back road. My TD5 was actually a far more relaxing experience doing the highlands and islands. |
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20th Mar 2024 10:37am |
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| pjm-84 Member Since: 12 Apr 2021 Location: Hampshire Posts: 662
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Works sweet in the BMW..... indeed the only saving grace in previous BMWs was the ZF 8 speed gearbox along with the engine. Now I have the benefit of a DSG in the VW and and an Aisin-Warner automatic box in the Volvo to compare against. The ZF beats them hands down. The DSG is good but frequently changes into top too soon, but the lag when taking off.....arghhh... |
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20th Mar 2024 12:10pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 751
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they aren't driveable or ok for many people. I just find they don't do quite what I want. I tend to drive at extremes, either very gentle or very aggressive, depending on mood, location etc.
I've driven 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 & 9 speed autos. Not tried the 10 speed ones yet. Across many different vehicles. Old ones, 3 speeders and non electronic control 4 speeders plod along ok and are smooth, but no fun. And heavy compromise on rpm. The 4 speed electronic controlled ones, such as the ZF HP24 in my p38a or the GM 4L60e in a Camaro I owned, they worked well, no delay on kickdown when going to wide open throttle, but only 4 gears means rpm gaps unless you re-gear to compromise cruising rpms. Overall I'd say I've got on best with these. Anything more modern and esp the 6 speeder onwards, so including the ZF8 speed and Mercedes 9 speed. They all seem to suffer the same issues. Most are dreadful off the line, esp if behind a diesel, with a very large delay. All have a huge delay when going to wide open throttle. Part throttle kick down is quick and responsive, but if say at 40mph and you floor it all the way, they all seem to .... wait, wait, wait a little more then decide to drop a lot of gears. The time taken from moving the throttle pedal all the way down, to the vehicle picking a gear and accelerating seems vastly more than the old 4 speed boxes. But this is common on pretty much every modern auto I've driven. I also find the manual modes highly annoying, as thus far 99% of the ones I've driven will still kickdown and upshift, despite being in "manual". |
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20th Mar 2024 12:31pm |
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| steveww Member Since: 05 Jan 2022 Location: Uppingham Posts: 569
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I like autos for boring mile munching and of course they are just great in cities or traffic jams; no aching left leg. I agree with other posts, the modern autos suffer great pregnant pauses while the gearbox and engine brain have a little chat to decide what to do. The usual one that gets me is roundabouts. Gently on the brakes approaching just in case you have to stop, no all good there's a gap, on the gas and nothing still coasting, oh sh*t that gap is disappearing, oh for f**ks sake choose a gear and do something!
I'm always surprised by the immediate throttle response of my Defender compared to my wife's BMW sports car, which is auto. With the BMW there's always a pause between pressing the gas and something happening, not so in the Defender it's immediate. |
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20th Mar 2024 3:41pm |
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| LR Nuts Member Since: 10 Aug 2022 Location: UK Posts: 1141
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I would like a manual, you can 'ride' the clutch, better control with two legs.
Wish my New Defender was a manual. |
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20th Mar 2024 4:27pm |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3310 
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I found the same with our BM’s ZF so I got it remapped and it made a massive difference. It’s a completely different car now. https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/bmw-transmission-tuning/ WARNING. This post may contain sarcasm. |
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20th Mar 2024 6:32pm |
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